Trading With The Flow!!!

We have been trading this method for some time now. Here we will track the Moves as they come for Nifty Futures.

Looking forward to work towards learning along with trading through sharing.

All the best.

Kapil

Great to see the start of NF trades using the intraday miniflow…….

All the best!
Saint

Exitting all at eod.

Saint

Been easy last few days………more of a hold till end…..no getting tense of possible reversal.

Nice.

Saint

Here is the chart for today's trade. Been a good day.

Today we had a downmove, and then a break above pivot highs on 15 that got our longs triggered as shown in the chart. But then on breakout failure we reversed to shorts. Also added to shorts on pivot break. Covered the shorts at the end of day

Hello

We developed this style of writing using terms like 11 am bar high + filter etc… for some specific reasons

But now that we have a better enviornment here, can we not use the exact levels ? Its easier to write/read with levels.

Thanks

Guess this is a public forum which is visible to non-members also. In time, tips seekers will also troop in here. So I think we have to carry on with this style only.
Bee

True - non public forums may be more fruitful if levels are to be mentioned

Yes, this forum can be viewed by all, but only members can post

:(

Well I was under the impression that one needs to log in even to read

So be it.

Nifty long bove H 2795 +mf
Short below L-2780 -mf..

long triggered.

Just a small request to all, Please refrain from giving the filter values here.
Here we concentrate more on the learning aspect.

Sure kapil.Noted

SAR 11Am BAR -F FOR long

Friends,
Correct me if i am wrong:-)

Still LOD, but would revise to 11.30 after another 15mins. (Of course will depend on this bar)

SAR HIT

Yummy move on NF short.

Saint

covering my short 2779

Today our long triggered on the breakout of the 1st 5 min bar. After that SAR triggered when low of long consolidation was taken out (12.30pm, 1pm, 1.30pm bars had almost same low). Adds triggered too towards the end of day. Booked profits at EOD.

covering my short 2779

Great going,SS!

Saint

No Entry till now.

Looks like Side way

Hope Entry still at

2809.5 +F
2796 - F

JV

Short triggered

short triggered

Closing of that break down bar not looking too good.

would love to shift sar at high of that brakedown bar but close stops me at the moment..

lets see

Now this is something I need to clear from the seniors.
Now if day low is taken out then, can we move SAR immediately to the pivot high + F or should we wait for the next 30 min bar to complete?
Pls help.
Thanks.

not a senior but let me try ..i think you saying about 15 min pivot.. we take 15 min pivots when 30 & 60 min also agrees to that pivot .. at this time 60 min doesn't look agree to it so i think we can bring stop at 11.30 bar high at this moment

seniors plz comment

vineet

Flock, essentially we are trading 30 min charts here.
So, in 30 min charts, till the time present bar is complete, whether the previous bar is a pivot or not would be a guess only.
So always wait for the pivot to form before taking a call on moving the SAR.

Kapil

not a senior but let me try …………….
seniors plz comment

vineet

Hahaha Vineet……..if you are not a senior,then there are no seniors here,my friend.

Saint

Well said Saint.
Vineet is a super Senior.

Thanks Vineet, Kapil.

And yes about Vineet, I agree with Saint Sir and Kapil. Here opinions amalgamate. :-)

saint sir …i am just one of your followers here ..nothing else…

thanx kapil & milind for your kind words…

adds triggered..

bringing SAR at brakedown bar's high

Great going Vineet.
Shorts working out nice as of now.

Kapil

ya kapil…looks good ..

booked 1/3 around 2762 as profit booking rule..

vineet

now we have pivot in 15 min tf …& both 30 & 60 min looks agree to this so bringing stop at high of last hourly bar ..

Hope everybody has reversed to longs.

S.long entered

ya kapil ..reversed but not expected this big move upward…wow..

booked 1/3 around 2810..

covered longs

Great going SS, Vineet.
Vineet you catching all the tops and bottoms today. lol.

ya kapil..but thats too within rules….

good first day in this forum..

thanx everybody…

vineet

Today short was triggered when the low of 11am bar was taken out. After that we added to shorts when the pivot made by 11.30am bar was broken.
Long triggered on break of 2pm bar on the upside.
Profits on shorts and longs taken as per individual plans.

No entry till now. watching even 15minutes closely

No entry still.

Yes. It is in sideways, waiting to break.

got pivot low in mean time ..let market decide where to go…

vineet

saint sir , please elaborate on move 1 ,move 2 … i think if its a move then all time frames ( 15,30 and 60) should agree.. today till 11 a.m 15 min and 30 min were showing downtrend while 60 remained in green… so we cannot consider it as a down move( move 1).. correct me

so far no confirmed move 1/2 yet,Bijo.

In the process of formation…………so far,no trades as yet.Will explain the concept of Move 1 and 2 again under Strategies at 1:30pm

Saint

bijo for move 1 ..price should make pivot lows & pivot high in one direction ..then only we can say that a move has happen …we can't say a sideway movement as moves …

vineet

p.s. sorry ..didn't saw saint sir's post

bijo for move 1 ..price should make pivot lows & pivot high in one direction ..then only we can say that a move has happen …we can't say a sideway movement as moves …

vineet

Excellent,Vineet……great stuff!

Saint

When the market moves sideways for many bars like today, should we enter trade on the break of the range with small filter??

thanx vineet for ur nice explanation… looking for more from Saint sir at 1.30

right bijo…waiting for class to start….

flock.. we should use m.f, my opinion

Thanks bijo. Looks like move 1 may be taking some shape soon.

Ouch……..too long to write a thesis replete with charts et all during market hours.

Sincere apologies.Let the mkt close,and will get into the nuances and discussion.

For now,we have Move 1,no trades triggerred.Move 2 is previous pivot high +small filters.

Sincere apologies,
Saint

We will wait Saint, as long as you are free. No problem.

Regards

thank u sir..will wait for EOD

Thanks Saint Sir.
Guess this place allows audio embedding. In case it is easier, this could be an option instead of typing it out.

long triggered in last minute of 1.30+SF

Covered 1 lot

Covered 1 lot

Are you short ? Wrong term I think. Shorts are covered.Longs sold or liquidated.

Smart_trade

Apolgize for the wrong note:-)

out from longs @ 2797

Great Going SS

Kapil

Today we got a PL made by 11am bar. After that the PL was broken by 1pm bar. But our filters saved us from getting into shorts.
The market immediately reversed and we went long above the 1pm bar. So long trade was triggered on the breakdown failure. This gave us an early. This bar closed strong and we added to our longs at high of this bar + add filter.
Profit booking at EOD as per individual plans.

Kapil,

I am missing something here… I thought the entry was "12.00 Bar Pivot High + SF". Could you please mind explaining the reason for entry on "1.00 Bar High + SF" [If i have got your entry right, else the appropriate one].

Regards,
-Sri

Sri

As posted by me we had a pivot low, which was subsequently broken and we had lower PL. Now, we expected the move to continue, but instead of that the high of bar which initially broke the PL i.e. 1pm bar was taken. That means that the breakdown had failed. Now this gives us an early entry as compared to entry that we get when the previous PH is taken out. So, we take an entry on BD failure and can take additional adds on that PH that you are referring to.

The details about Breakdown / Breakout failure are given in the Methods, under School in the top navigation bar.

Kapil

Hi Kapil,

Please clarify the following doubts:

The details given under method (in school), talk about the either the break down bar or the very next bar after the break down being a bullish bar. So we are to go long over the bullish bar. But in this case there was no bullish bar. The next bar (1:30) was bearish and made newer lows. So continuation of the down move happened.

Going by today's logic we should have gone short earlier, since the 11:30 bar made a new high, and its low was taken by the 12:30 bar.

Thanks.

Let me try to clarify the confusion. Few of the things might not have anything to do with Friday's trade and have been said only to bring in clarity.

1. As far as BDF is concerned, the trade was taken with lower TF (15min) charts also in perspective. If you go by 30 min charts, the entry point would have been break of pivot only. If you have taken entry on break of pivot, great going, as it is very much as per plan for the miniflow.

2. Regarding the query, that we talk of going long over the first bullish bar after the breakdown. The logic is that on a breakdown failure, we want an early entry as these patterns are very strong. Now, as mentioned there that we have a completely bearish candle as a breakdown bar, subsequently followed by a bullish bar and we go long over this bullish bar. The assumption here is that the high of bullish bar is less than the high of breakdown bar. Another thing that is mentioned is that we reverse when the breakdown bar reverses upon itself. So, the idea is to identify whether we have had a breakdown failure and to reverse the trade on confirmation.

3. Just making a new high, does not not mean that it is a breakout, so there is no question of even considering any failure of that move. Let me try to explain what a breakout or breakdown is. Suppose we are in a sideways move, and then from there the price breaks down. That would be considered a breakdown. Or we have a PL from where the price reverses giving a PH and then again comes back taking out the previous PL. Whenever a previous PL is broken, we expect the price to go further down. So, this is a breakdown that we need to watch for failure.

Kapil

Hi Vineet

Can you give the link for the Saint Sir reply on time frame as he said today noon

JV

Kapil

Above two post of yours are just fantastic. An insight into price movement. More such posts are welcome. Gems.

Bee

Thanks Bee for your kind words, I don't deserve them though.
Just a attempt to learn things together.

Kapil

Kapil, thanks much for your efforts in explaining the nuances in a lucid manner. Hope to learn a lot from you :) and try to be successful in trades.

Regards,
-Sri

Kapil

Great Post

Thank you

JV

Thanks Kapil. Nice effort and very good entry.

Ouch……..too long to write a thesis replete with charts et all during market hours.

Sincere apologies.Let the mkt close,and will get into the nuances and discussion.

For now,we have Move 1,no trades triggerred.Move 2 is previous pivot high +small filters.

Sincere apologies,
Saint

Saint sir ..looking forward to ur words..as promised yesterday

Thanks Kapil, for nice and elaborate post. Keep up the good work.

Regards,
Dhinakar

"Move 1 happens when we get higher pivot highs and higher pivot lows,without our filters triggering…………………When the
latest pivot low is broken to the down,this is what we mean by Move 2….."

Now its crystal clear sir…thanks a lot..

(always wondering how much time and effort you take to clear doubts of beginners!!! hats off)

regards
bijo

Great to hear that things are clear as of now………..:)

All the best!
Saint

Good morning to all

JV

Kapil,

I have a question:

Move 1 happens, and there are pivots too. Like Saint and bijo just discussed.
But if we are entering at break of a pivot anyway, then we are using the pivot concept (enter at break of ALL PL-sf). Where is the use of move 1 concept?

In essence, move 1 or not the moment we see a pivot's break we enter at PL-sf. So how does one use the move 1 concept?

Tks.
Amit.

Thanks Saint Sir. I have a minor doubt, but will clear it after EOD.

no Entry till now.

Move 1 concept is used only for a big bang entry with larger filter. After that for move 2 we use normal (smaller) filter.
Bee

Bee, you mean, we start off using filter 14 as movfil. If prices moves unidirectionally but does not take out our MovFil we call it move 1. As this move 1 will have made some pivots (H/L) we place our entry at Ph+sf (as we always use sf for pivot type entry).

I was asking, if we are to use pivots to enter then where does the move1 concept come into action.

Earlier I understood that as our movfil does not get filled (while going up) and move 1 is made… we place entries below previous 30min bar lows-sf in anticipation of stronger/swift move2 in the opposite direction (like it is anticipated today). But apparently after recent posts I have realized that this is not how Saint wanted us to know. Therefore, I request a clarification.

Thank you.

No Entry till this bar…

I have a question:

Move 1 happens, and there are pivots too. Like Saint and bijo just discussed.
But if we are entering at break of a pivot anyway, then we are using the pivot concept (enter at break of ALL PL-sf). Where is the use of move 1 concept?

In essence, move 1 or not the moment we see a pivot's break we enter at PL-sf. So how does one use the move 1 concept?

Tks.
Amit.

A very good question Amit.

The concept of Move 1, Move 2 and pivots is to cover some of the scenarios that occur in market.
Let us say we have a limp move 1, and then the break of pivot low. We go short using the small filter.

Now let us say, we have 2-3 strong bullish bars and then a pullback bar, giving us a PH. Now if the next bar makes new high, we go long with small filter again.
Now if you 2 big bullish bars and then a big bearish bar, next small bullish bar and next bar is down, again small filter is used on break of pivot.

The problem comes when we get multiple higher pivot highs and lows in sideways move, with all small bars, there we keep on applying the big filter for entering long. Saint has created a new thread for discussions for the same.

Click here to go to the thread

Kapil thank you for answering the question. In turn it has raised another question.

Some of our esteemed seniors have a way to tackle a dull scenario such as today. Where there are no pivots AND the movfil is not filled. There are just 5 continous dull up 30min bars.

To begin with, the problem they are facing is, if they wait for LOD-Mf to cross then they lose 40 points of action. So they consider this upward drag of 5 up bars as move 1. In absence of pivots they use the prev bar low for entry. So they are going to go short below the immediately previous 30 min bar low-sf. So I ask, has such an adaptation of move 1 concept been discussed earlier in the mother-thread? Has Saint approved it yet or is it a new development?

Amit

Going short below the previous bar only when other Time Frames agree, not otherwise.

Kapil

Can the pivot low on the 15 at bottom of 11:30 bar being the same as the hourly 12:00 bar low be considered as an agreement among time frames?

Hello kapil,

The 4 bar rule is used to trail our SAR. IF we had a long today our stop would now be at 11.30 bar low-sf. But since we still do not have an entry can this (11.30 bar low-sf) be used to enter a short entry?

Short still at days low?

Amit,

For 2 bar to be used the bars should have good range, and if that would have been the case we would already have been long.
Now, to answer your 2nd question. Instead of answering it I will ask you a question.

We have had a straight upmove till now. If a pivot low is to be formed now, what would be the price action ( I mean what kind of further bars would there be)?

Kapil

No entry till now in mini..though missing lot of actions:-)

8 up bars and still no entry. This will go down as an unique day. More surprising as we had a fairly big gap up from a consolidation.

Volumes also low.

Ominous!!!!

Bee

Kapil,

If a pivot low is formed, there are two ways out… either we go long over the ph+sf or pl-sf. Then things are simple.

As for bars… the kind I'd look out for is BO bar, its reversal, BD bar, its reversal. Right? Did you mean to ask something else.

Amit,

My question was regarding the price action and not where we would enter the trade.
Anyways, after so many bullish bars there is always a possibility of a pullback so as to give a pivot. Now this pullback can take out the lows of previous few bars, so does it justify going short on previous bar's low? The answer is NO. The pullback is not a sign of weakness.

Kapil

Just breaking previour bar's low is no reason to go short .

Smart_trade

Yes, Kapil it is very logical. Just a pullback is no reason to go short. Just like on 6th of March 09. Tks.

So I guess we will wait for TFA. However, 30 min is showing no sign of halting, so it hourly.

But…. 2.30 bar low is a 30 min pl. So short pl-sf.

Amit

Today the trade triggered on taking out the Pivot formed at 2913 +sf by the 3pm bar.

Kapil

There are times when the Mov Fil keeps us out of bad trades……..then again there are days like these.It happens…..part of the plan.Worked well in Bank Nf today,but here,only that pivot high of 2:30pm and above that….Great chart,Kapil!!

Saint

Kapil,

Should'nt we use big filter from pivot high for entering longs as it surely is not move two?

Thanks

Move 1 and Move 2 is a concept that explains the price movement.
As already explained before that we go long / short over a pivot using sf. But the problem is when in sideways, limp move we get a series of pivots. Here we will be using a big filter always.

Today the market looked strong but the manner in which it kept gaining did not trigger our trades. But at 2pm, we got the bearish bar that gave us a pivot. So, taking that out is a sign of great strength. So what do we do, we got long over that using SF.

Thanks Kapil.

That clears confusion on what filter to use over pivots.
I have posted a query with a chart in the Q & A thread, regarding identification of move1 and 2. Please check.

Rgds

Entry triggered.

Great going SS(Stk smilie)……….:)

Saint

Thx saint.
Booking out few lots as profit taking method.
Rest moving the SAR as per rule.

2 bar rule for SAR!!!

Too much slippage today…. Very unlike near month Nifty Futures.

Well done,SS….Great going!

Saint

My SAR for long just got hit @ 2971 !!

Amit

PS: Is there a way to load fewer posts or pages each time I open this thread. Tks.

PS: Is there a way to load fewer posts or pages each time I open this thread. Tks.

We are already working on that and the problem should be taken care of soon.

Kapil

Sorry, Unable to post the followup. out all my longs at 2297.
Entered short @ 11bar low-f. Covered all lot.
No postions now:-)

As there has been excellent participation in the NF Miniflow, we are starting a new thread for the same.
This thread is being closed.

Here is the link for the new thread

Kapil