Trading With The Flow!!!

As the Title suggests here we will be discussing Gold Daily flow. Same method as listed here but with Daily as TF

Looking forward to all your contributions

Regards,
MJ-

Ah,great…….although relatively new at it.Have been looking at the Daily Charts in Gold and positioned myself a few days back with the first trades.

Going to run up and down Gold using the Daily Charts,like how we managed the 60min charts.

Thanx for starting this thread…….Great going!

Saint

Thanks for the Thread MJ, Gold looks a lot more juicy on Daily charts

Yes Prabhjeet……..verrry juicy.

Prabhjeet,a separate section exists now for trades that are more unidirectional swing…………..eg Daily Charts with a Weekly in Perspective.Read that you wanted to start a few threads with this strategy.The Swing Trades Section awaits you.

Also looking fwd to some inputs in this thread and in Gold overall……….here,a pivot break will lead to short positions and vice versa again for longs.

Pour your knowledge out,my friend.Great to have you here.

All the best!
Saint

Ok Saint, I understand that we go with flow here, will start the new thread in Swing Trading soon

Looking fwd to it……. :)

Saint

Still long on the Daily Flow our stops are miles back at 14851-filter.

Saint

What is the Filter to be used Saint, is 80 enough or something more

BTW, Gold is going to test the lower trendline of the Bullish Flag third time on Daily charts, it is important to have a Blast- up from here, if it doesn't break the channel after touching the lower trendline than Gold may be in for trouble even on weekly charts

BTW, Gold is going to test the lower trendline of the Bullish Flag third time on Daily charts, it is important to have a Blast- up from here, if it doesn't break the channel after touching the lower trendline than Gold may be in for trouble even on weekly charts

Excellent Prabhjeet….my views exactly.The third touch is over…..what we expect from here is a huge breakout.That is the expected move.Failure to do so might lead to a failure pattern and a lot of trapped bulls.

From our side,we keep our stops and reverse as always.

Saint

What is the Filter to be used Saint, is 80 enough or something more

Same here……..have been toying about 75.But yes,80 sounds okay for now.

Saint

We are now short in Gold, if we are trading every pivot. If waiting for new highs then Still long!….the rivers will meet as usual if we get a breakout our breakdown.

MJ-

Yes on the daily chart each and every pivot is taken in Gold - minor, major, tiny and weeny also.

Bee

Hello

I am planning to start trading gold mini with the daily flow.

I have never traded based on EoD charts, so this will be the first time for me.

Initially I will not be trading the hourly so as no confusion about Long on daily but short on hourly :)

Will need some hand holding as really don't know anything about MCX and settelments (except some inputs from ST :)

To start with can some one tell me about the rollover and when to start trading the next month contracts.

Currently shows 3 series for GoldM april, may, june.

Regards
Rajesh

Hello Rajesh,

Welcome to the gold daily chart players caucus. Normally people who do not want to take delivery (long position holders) square off their positions on MCX 5 days before the due date. So you will have to square off your April 4 GOLD mini positions 5 trading days before. Normally brokers, like Sharekhan, give such notice to the clients to square off their positions.

For short positions, I think, you can carry till one day before the settlement - am not very sure but I never wait to take that risk and switch to next series 5 days before the expiry as the penalties are horrendous.

But as the daily chart require you to hold positions for a long time, I would advice you to enter next series now and be tension free.

Bee

Thanks Bee

I was also of the mind to start with the next series and maybe rollover 10 odd days ahead of the expiry.

Regards
Rajesh

Hi again

As per my data, we are currently short the GoldM april contract from 4th March @ 15023, the current SAR being 15550, taking filter as 80.

Plz confirm the position.

Regards
Rajesh

The way I do things,I am still long……….and this flag pattern on the daily is putting me in deep snooze.But holding rigidly to the stops,in case this pattern fails………..and looking to an expected blast off.

Looks like I am the only one long :)

Saint

Hello MJ, Prabhjeet

I know its daily supposed to be laidback or deep snooze as Sir puts it .. but we need some activity here for new guys like me to get started …

Thanks
Rajesh

I suppose even daily charts are now in short mode, but look at the big gap-up today, need real big stomach man

Hello

On the GoldM charts the Average Daily Range is 320 points.

From yesterdays close we already did 620 points, mostly the big moves happen in the evening session.

Rightly said by you, we need to keep absolute tight position sizing

Thanks
Rajesh

Yes,still holding longs……….some tense moments yesterday as the mind threw up various scenarios,not very comfortable with the stomach.Great gap up today……better if it takes out the previous pivot highs on the daily as well, all in one clean sweep.

Saint

Saint, agreed that we (Indian MCX GOLD) have not taken out the PH on daily but internationally (GOLD ounce), daily PH was taken out quite comfortably as GOLD went up till 949 last night…

what do you think of that??

Didn't get you Saint, how are you still long, I thought your SAR would have been taken yesterday. Can you kindly throw some light

Good to see new forum only for flow trading, excellent, soon will start trading in mcx, then will definately post, till then will enjoy learning from all our seniors.
Great going.

My best guess prabhjeet after looking at charts is that He shorted as per plan but failure to break the flag, and instead recover near EOD and take support (yet again) and the Trend line meant Gold isn't ready to fall, hence maybe reverted to longs.

Will reverse to longs at yesterday's High + filter. Gold is ready to breakout now.

Regards,
MJ-

Yes that might be the reason MJ

tHANKS

Saint and friends,

Am I missing something here? I agree about the flag and am too raw to take that into my trading scheme of things but you see in the daily charts Golds swings enough both ways to make money i.e., usually the SAR goes into the green. I am uploading the trades of Gold mini. I am now long when on March 20 the price took out my SAR above March 13 high.

One thing I do (trying out till now with some success) is to take some profits at around 6 to 12 bar congestions (extreme of the range) which is quite common in Gold in 60 min and a big indicator to take some profit taking action. Nor strictly as per the flow method but till now has given ok results.

Please see the chart and critical comments are welcome.

Bee

We had a rare whipsaw on gold daily. Lets see if we have to reverse again. Stops at March 20 high.

Bee

Gold poised delicately. It can break either way. Money to be made now. People looking to enter the daily. Go long over March 26 hi or short below March 27 low. Enter next month contract.

Happy Trading.

Bee

No one in gold. Gold poised for a breakdown.
Bee

Bee to me 25rd March Pivot lo seems a more Visual one, may be a better place to reverse

Prabh,

Reverse? Are you long in gold daily? I am short in gold daily. I play all tiny pivots in daily charts as per my plan I had uploaded.

Yes, if you are looking to enter then March 25 low looks a better place, now breached. In fact the real breakdown from this flag will be from low of March 18.

Bee

No positions as such Bee till now but Gold is on my Radar and in my view if Break the low of the Bullish Hammer on 25th we may be in for good downmove, lets see, my filter has saved me getting into short till now

Prabh,

Could not really understand. Your filters must be huge to keep you out of short trade till now which is against my thinking of keeping minimum filter on the daily.

I have tried this approach to see if I can survive gold's daily movement when it is in a range like this flag and which you also have pointed out in your envelope philosophy. I had a different view so I am trying that out. You see even in this tight range my SAR has moved into green territory.

Time is also of essence and we are all growing old, in daily, if we wait for a breakout then probably we will all be waiting for ever and loose out.

This approach keeps us in trade, does not loose too much money, in fact makes a trickle and is always poised for an early entry for a breakout.

Looks like I am selling my system hard here, hahaha.

Happy trading

Bee

bee, since im already short following the 60mins, and since i do not have daily gold charts, can you tell me the exact level (if you dont mind) that your shorts got triggered?

thanks,

rishi

Rishi,

I am giving a link below where you can see Gold mini current contract daily chart on ichart.

http://www.icharts.in/charts-beta.html

I went short below March 20 low 15,350 less filter which was crossed on March 24. See the chart for better clarity.

Bee

Prabh,

Could not really understand. Your filters must be huge to keep you out of short trade till now which is against my thinking of keeping minimum filter on the daily.

I have tried this approach to see if I can survive gold's daily movement when it is in a range like this flag and which you also have pointed out in your envelope philosophy. I had a different view so I am trying that out. You see even in this tight range my SAR has moved into green territory.

Time is also of essence and we are all growing old, in daily, if we wait for a breakout then probably we will all be waiting for ever and loose out.

This approach keeps us in trade, does not loose too much money, in fact makes a trickle and is always poised for an early entry for a breakout.

Looks like I am selling my system hard here, hahaha.

Happy trading

Bee

Not trying to prove any strategy wrong or right Bee, just a matter of choice.

For me a Commodity like Gold is the Bread and Butter of all kind of players, I don't think that it can Trend whole year round and make Millionaires every month, for me there are times when Trend players would be made to suffer and then there would be times when these people would look to be the only sensible ones. Right now its clear to my naked eyes that neither Bulls nor Bears its the wolves only who are winning, so I will wait for either Bulls or Bears
to win so that I can get on the winning side.

Thats my view , may be wrong but thats what suits me.

Regarding the filters, I tend to keep very small Filters whether in Stocks or Commodities when I see its Trending smoothly but if I see a range like one now my Filters are really large

Thanks Prabh,

Yours is a very sensible and matured thinking and approach, as always. Keep posting and guiding us.

Bee

Dear prabhjeetji u posted some thing to know range in market in TJ forum ………… please start a thread on how we can sense there will be a trend in recent future or a range may be with the help of any indicators etc……..

Regards
Satya

Hi Bee SacreOcean had posted a 20 SMA idea in the thread "Anything on Pivot " as you also use two EMA cross over to identify reversal pivot please write something about it in the thread so that we all can learn something ……….
waitning your inputs

Regards
Satya

Thanks Bee for your encouraging words,though I know you don't agree with my view here :)

Satya here are the links to the posts in TJ where I discussed ranges, I dont want to mess this thread with long discussions thats why given the links

http://www.traderji.com/commodities/26207-60-min-flow-international-commodities-15.html#post272383
http://www.traderji.com/commodities/26207-60-min-flow-international-commodities-16.html#post272392
http://www.traderji.com/commodities/26207-60-min-flow-international-commodities-16.html#post272393

Thanks a lot no i m not saying in this thread you can open a new thread …………

Regards
Satya

Rajesh,

Will need some hand holding as really don't know anything about MCX and settelments (except some inputs from ST :)

Just got a message from Sharekhan that MCX long positions in Gold and Goldm 4 April contract have to be squared off today as the tender period starts today and the short positions can be squared off on April 4.

So that clears our doubt on when to switch over to the new contract.

Bee

Prabh,

Thanks Bee for your encouraging words,though I know you don't agree with my view here :)

Real friendship can only be there when disagreement is taken into one's stride and see some positive side to it. Agreement all the time will lead to a mutual admiration society (to put it bluntly — plain sycophancy).

Here we have a set of like minded people who disagree constructively and hence we have formed this formidable band of flow traders.

Bee

Satya

Let me also dig up the posts like Prabh has done. Pl bear with me.

Bee

Real friendship can only be there when disagreement is taken into one's stride and see some positive side to it. Agreement all the time will lead to a mutual admiration society (to put it bluntly — plain sycophancy).

Here we have a set of like minded people who disagree constructively and hence we have formed this formidable band of flow traders.

Bee

Right Bee if we keep on agreeing on each and every put that would be being dishonest to each other. God has made Trillions of individuals each with different DNA so its impossible to have a same set of views every time.

Though the single motto which has kept us together through thick and thin is becoming a Better Trader and Person as whole and that should always remain

Regards

Satya

Let me also dig up the posts like Prabh has done. Pl bear with me.

Bee

Arrey Bee Ji no please write something about moving average the idea behind to use it why 3 and 13 EMA what is logic behind it
etc etc

Which will be great help

Regards
Satya

Well Satya,

Nothing much to it really. I am a fan of Fibonacci numbers and have tried the best fit of 3 EMA and 13 EMA crossover technique on 60 minutes bar/ candle charts. It fits remarkably well with our pivots and trade reversals also i.e., crossover point of the two EMAs coincide with where we took actual trade reversals on pivot breaks. This can be tried by putting the EMAs on your charts and studying.

I really do not want to carry on this idea here as this is flow forum with pivots.

We are striving here to hone our skills of recognising pivots and should avoid such crutches. Those were the days when mother thread was closed and I felt my education was still not complete so I had devised this way.

Now with this forum going full blast and with Saint again giving live teaching which we have seen in last few days — awesome demos on WRBs, EOD reversals and many nuances.

Would sincerely advise people to not let this second chance go by without learning earnestly from this.

Thanks and regards

Bee

Trading decisions are never black or white,they are always gray….some find more white than black in it,some find more black than white in it, some find no black,no white, only gray….One can never achieve perfection…..the greatest of the traders cannot achieve that …so let us now waste too much time and energy for arguments and being 100 % right…no one can achieve that.

Trade the method as per our understanding….if few wrong trades are taken,we have a stoploss to protect us. Few wrong trades make no difference in the final scheme of things….We trade our believes in trading…two different traders may react differently in a given situation. Some time one is right,sometime other one is right. Trading has never been an activity carried out by most agreeing….

My humble 2 cents….

Smart_trade

Thanks a Lot BEE and ST

Regards
Satya

Gold poised for a breakdown.

Bee

Tomorrow MCX/NCDEX open from 10 am to 11:30pm
Bee

bee, its been poised for so long now…but the poison is not affecting it….it needs to go down and go down in a jiffy :)…tired of playing these games :P

Finally my Hugeeee filter gives in, so am short now, will have to closely monitor how Gold closes today

prabhjeet, what are your stops for the shorts on daily gold flow?

30th March high is my stop

Gold cracking up hard and Fast, today's close below 15000 is important

Gold hit lower circuit at 14632, woooooh

Wow, Gold dust is flying all over. I had to go away after 3:30pm today and one of my friends did phone me about gold crashing, was aching to get back to my terminal.

Prabh, will you be trading now the daily or the 60 min?

March 25, 31 and Apr 1 lows made a support line worthy of an add for shorts. My adds got triggered.

If playing the daily, the please note Apr 1 bar made an inside bar and today its low has been breached, so my stop is at Apr 1 high. This anyway is also as per the classical pivot flow method also.

Bee

PS: I also find that March 18 low has also been breached. Now Saint Sir would also be looking to go short as I think he has been holding on to his longs for a long time now. Then and only then will our small streams meet the mighty Amazon of Saint's flow trade.

Wow, Gold dust is flying all over. I had to go away after 3:30pm today and one of my friends did phone me about gold crashing, was aching to get back to my terminal.

Prabh, will you be trading now the daily or the 60 min?

March 25, 31 and Apr 1 lows made a support line worthy of an add for shorts. My adds got triggered.

If playing the daily, the please note Apr 1 bar made an inside bar and today its low has been breached, so my stop is at Apr 1 high. This anyway is also as per the classical pivot flow method also.

Bee

PS: I also find that March 18 low has also been breached. Now Saint Sir would also be looking to go short as I think he has been holding on to his longs for a long time now. Then and only then will our small streams meet the mighty Amazon of Saint's flow trade.

Have started with the Daily right now Bee but will see how long I can do that, cannot help myself from looking at 60 min. Pivots

Reg: Holidays

NSE - Is it closed on April - 7, 10 and 14?
MCX - Is it closed on April - 7, 10 and 14?

Please confirm someone.

Bee

http://www.nseindia.com/content/equities/eq_holidays.htm
http://www.mcxindia.com/tradingholidays.htm

Thanks Nitin,:-)
Bee

Bee

I have gone thro' your strategy for Gold trading on daily bars. Presently Gold has made two inside bars on 7th & 8th Apr.09. As per scenerio Case-1, we are stopped out of short position and now waiting for either high or low of 6th Apr.09 to be taken out for re-entry.

Is my understanding correct?

Regards

Muktha

Mukta,

Are you seeing icharts Gold mini current contract daily charts? If yes then, what you are doing is ok. How did you exit? Yesterday we had a gap up and then a steady fall so opportunity to exit was not there.

Icharts data is different from what I have in Sharekhan. April 6 and April 7 bars are making case 3 scenario. So I am waiting for a lower PH to form. So my stop is at April 3 high. We are making a beautiful lower PH to shift our SAR down to April 8 high when prices go below April 6 low.

One more thing, do not consider inside bars made on saturdays and check out carefully the bars made when only 2nd half of the session is traded.

Also keep filters to the minimum. No point in wasting points on filters while playing the daily bars.

Hope I am clear.

Bee

Bee,Mukhta
plz post charts for clear view.

Bee

Thanks for clarifications. I refered to ichart as i am not getting Daily chart in trade tiger .

Regards

Muktha

Niftyrider : Please refer GOLDM-MX-1M daily chart from icharts.in as I am unable to attach the chart.

http://www.icharts.in/charts-beta.html

Mukta,

You will not get daily charts for commodities on trade tiger. I do not get it and do not know the reason for it. The people at local office of Sharekhan are very much technically challenged and hence have never been able to provide any tech support to me.

If you have to trade this and put your money in trading gold daily then please download daily tick list in excel csv file and convert the same to your metastock or amibroker software. This is a must for survival.

I normally download 15 min tick list every 3 days as tiger trade gives 5-day intraday data at any point of time.

Happy Trading

Bee

thnx bee and mukhta for quick reply.

No one in Gold. Gold delicately poised for a breakdown. People who are short can get ready to add. Prabh, Mukta, Rishi,Neeraj, ??????

Bee

add coming up @ what point?

Rishi,

The low of Apr 6 is not very far off. That is the breakdown point to my mind. If short then add at the break of that point.
The ferocity of today's rise in NF means that Gold will drop like hell when international market opens up. Lets see.
Happy trading

Bee

i dont have charts for than 5 days… :( can you point the exact level to me in PM..sorry for asking too much…i was out of gold shorts last week after making good profits…and then switched over to equities…now seems like its time to switch sides again :)

No one in gold? Gold has breached April 9 low :-). Next target April 6 low and then the bottom of the pacific!!!
Bee

Presently out of position. Waiting for low of 6th Apr.09 to break for re entry.

Regards

Muktha

I am already in for the past few days now…just waiting patiently and trying to hold on before the big sell off arrives :P

Rishi/Mukta

Gold short triggered for you yet? My add to short triggered.

Bee

I am already short….looking to add…one has to be careful with gold….although we (MCX GOLD) broke the recent daily lows that triggered our adds, but the recent lows in world gold market still intact….so just a little watchful…

Can we take 16th Apr.09 high as SAR for daily flow in gold.

Please confirm

Regards

Mukta,

Let me clarify and clear some confusions.

SAR is a place where price reverses and we also change direction. This SAR in flow method is a pivot high or pivot low. Now please see the daily charts, April 16 high is not a pivot high. Pivot high is at April 13 high. If you have to keep SAR as per flow method then that is the place where your SAR should be.

Now coming to my method, if you have read that and are trying to implement. Let me clarify that I move the stops bar by bar as per the method outlined in my file. Please note this is a stop to exit and not to reverse. Re - entry methods are again described there. Also please note this is my method and am not advocating that people do actual trading. That is your individual decision. Also Saint has not commented yet on the same. So it is your own call.

I had devised this method to take profits and since it is a daily chart, re-entry may take many days. This will give me a chance to book profit and deploy my scarce capital to many excellent intra-day methods of Saint like mini-flow and ambush, till I get a chance to re-enter Gold daily. All this is tailored to my particular money management situation, individual preference for larger time frame trading, personal trading psyche, etc.

Please feel free to ask any doubt.

Bee

Thanks for very clear and crisp explanation. I was of the same opinion but wrongly mentioned it as SAR instead of Stop.

Regards

any view on gold? it has broken above the 14600 mark….are we back bullish again on daily?

any view on gold? it has broken above the 14600 mark….are we back bullish again on daily?

Rishi

You can go thru the discussions from this post onwards, if interested,
http://tradersaint.com/forum/t-141888/trading-the-daily-chart-in-gold-mini-a-profit-taking-strategy#post-455455

Bee

sure….

GM Saint and all

Gold flying high:)

Bee

Yes Bee……..very nice.:)

Saint

yeah…what are the next targets for gold..i wish i had charts for than 5 days :) anyways, it seems if a move abov $920 per ounce does not materialize, then fall in Gold will be huge…

Levels of 14850- 14950 would be important to watch, this was the point where Gold broke down on Daily charts

i think we are on the same page prabhjeet….14850-14950 level would correspond to 920/ounce… :)