Trading With The Flow!!!

This is The D&Q section. IF you are new to the methods and the other threads are moving too fast, This is the place to start.
Fire away with your questions,doubts. Do post charts if possible, will make the question clear.

No question is "stupid" here, every question is a question. However Please go through the Quick Links>Methods page before posting here.
All Experienced members will try to answer.

Regards,
MJ-

Great ………….. thanks

Regards
Satya

MJ & Satyen i have a question regarding filter for NIFTY, BANKNIFTY, ICICIBANK,SBI, RELCAPITAL ABAN IS I AM MORE DEMANDING?

plz ask your filter doubt of nifty

Regards
Satya

NIFTY FILTER AT SAR & ADD

Regards
Sandeep . Sorry to add as I am still Short in Nifty 60 minutes flow as I am using bigger filter

initialy we were using 15 & 7 for reversal and ADD then lot of people changed according to personal preference _,, u still short can i knwo the filter value it must be around 30 or above

Regards
Satya

Yes I am using Rs 30 (2652-30)I think Nifty touches 2628 appox ( chart not avaiable )

30 + 30 = 60 points for a round trip in NF, when NF is trending one way for only 150 to 200 points and that too with lots hiccups!!!! Adds also very difficult now a days. Things are very difficult in NF — not like good old days when NF used to trend for more then 300 points one way.
Bee

Hi sandeepkant,

Happy you are asking questions. However your Figure surprises me.

Yes On the 17th We reversed to short in nifty, Howver price returned to above the PL level, we REVERTED to longs again. Since then we are holding longs.
Although there is not right or wrong way of doing things, just a different way, but in my humble opinion a filter of 30 is too much. Please re-consider lowering it.

Sandeep also, please give me the trades you have taken in NF 60min. Would like to see them if its not much trouble.

Cheers
MJ-

Hi sandeepkant,

Happy you are asking questions. However your Figure surprises me.

Yes On the 17th We reversed to short in nifty, Howver price returned to above the PL level, we REVERTED to longs again. Since then we are holding longs.
Although there is not right or wrong way of doing things, just a different way, but in my humble opinion a filter of 30 is too much. Please re-consider lowering it.

Sandeep also, please give me the trades you have taken in NF 60min. Would like to see them if its not much trouble.

Cheers
MJ-

Also Sandeep,……………how did a filter of 30 get triggerred when the low was 24pts from the pivot low.Should have triggerred only if it hit 2722……so basically,should have been long.

Saint

Sir,On that day everybody was short(Ref: Traderji) so I also short

MJ & Saint Sir , Sorry for silly questions -I got the answer (END OF DAY REVERSAL: Imagine holding a Long position, initial along with adds. A counter move happens, takes out the pivot lows and puts you out of that trade into a fresh Short position. Now, by the end of that trading day, we should have a closing below the pivots which had put us into that trade. Inability to have a stronger close in our favour would mean that the breakout lacked strength and hence we need to reverse our position back to Longs. And when we use the End of day reversal…we reverse with full position…Original as well as Adds which we held before entering this Short Trade. Vice versa for Shorts.)

Sandeep,

The EOD reversal has not been incorporated by many in their method. So, there is nothing wrong if you did not take EOD reversal.
There are a few things that need attention.

1. Just keeping a high filter does not ensure that trades will not be whipsawed.
2. One needs to do backtests to decide the appropriate filter. It should neither be too small (that gives a lot of false trades), nor too big (that takes away most of the profits or which is much more looking at volatility of the scrip).
3. Once a filter / method has been decided, one should not look left or right to see whats the trade everybody else is taking. Filter is an essential part of the whole method. So sticking to it is a must. Consistency is very important in trading.

Wishing you all the best.
Kapil

Sir,On that day everybody was short(Ref: Traderji) so I also short

I don't know what to say now Sandeep. TJ, this website, serves one purpose, to teach trading. We don't give tips, Please learn the method then trade. IF in doubt close positions and go back to charts, ask questions here. But taking a short because MJ said so or Saint said so, is plain WRONG!

Very disappointed…

Thanks MJ & Kapil for guiding me . U should not be disappointed next time.

Great to hear that, I'm sure you will make a good trader…. the right temperament is very important.

Best of Luck!
Regards,
MJ-

Thanks MJ & Kapil for guiding me . U should not be disappointed next time.

Great Sandeep. We all make mistakes, and its ok as long as we learn from them.

Hi All,

I have a question on 60 min Flow futures trading. I am still learning futures trading so this could be a very basic question.

I would like to know what to do when the contract is about to expire. For example the Nifty Futures March-26 contract ends on March 26th. Are we supposed to close our positions for March-26th and take new positions in accordance to the "Flow" for the April Futures? Or am i missing something here?

Regards,
-Sri

Grapes,

It is highly recommended that the mother thread be read like a text book if you want to succeed as a flow trader. However I am giving here saint's quote on the subject with reference of the mother thread post also:

{Series changeover on expiry: post 119 page 112 dated July 30, 2008

Basically,if the trend is still on,hold till last day and get back in the first day of the new contract.

If the trend changes a day or two prior to expiry,shift over to the next month's contract and continue as planned.

Here again,if pivots break in the last 30mins on expiry day + large difference in price between the two mths……….exit as always at pivot crack.Get back in the next day as per where price opens up.If no large difference,revert as always using next mth's contract and proceed as planned.

Saint}

Bee

Ah, thankx bee, for the quote.
If any questions, do ask again Grapes….

Regards,
MJ-

Was going through the rules of 60 min on this forum and am quoting the relevant portion below which I have not seen before or probably missed out being discussed ever:

D.FAILED BREAKOUT BAR REVERSAL: Supposing a bar takes out a Pivot high and puts us out of Short position into a fresh Long position. Now supposing we are NOT able to take out the highs of this BREAK OUT BAR, we get an indication that the break out was false…and so we reverse to SHORTS again below the low of the break out bar minus the filter. The same is applicable even if we get an add point in a long position by breaking a previous pivot high and we break the lows of this break out bar..the only condition being that the highs of this break out bar should not have been exceeded.
Vice versa for Shorts.

Now in case of a failed breakout (say holding long position) and we add and that breakout bar fails. Now

1. Do we come out of only the adds at the low - add filter of this breakout bar? Which means using add filter in reverse which is unheard of concept here.

2. Do we completely reverse at low - normal filter of this breakout bar?

Adds are a bit tricky as we add at very small filter as compared to entry filter or gap filter. So the add breakout bar may not be that big but big enough to trigger an add and then fail, so how do we treat it. So the above questions.

I have faced this problem with adds often (normally this happens after 2 adds when the trend peters outs) and now find this has been discussed here but somehow missed it.

Thanks

Bee

Hi Bee,
Thanks for bringing this up, will need to re-word that paragraph.
Put simply, as soon as we get a breakout bar failure, outright reverse the ENTIRE position.
IF we are long, whether with adds or without, regardless…..As soon as we get a Breakout failure we reverse the entire position to shorts. A failure means a trend change, a strong one at that, smart to capitalize on these moves.

We wrote "add" so that we do not confuse with the EOD reversal which is applicable only for initial positions.

If still in doubt,or I havnt addressed the doubt you have please let me know, will upload examples and re-word the paragraph completely.
Thanks again

Regards,
MJ-

Thanks MJ, all clear. Examples would be most welcome. Breakdown/out failures have to be understood clearly.
Bee

Excellent,MJ……Is that para above quoted by Bee in the Methods Section?If so,needs to get editted and clarified.

Great stuff,and well done!!

Saint

Made the changes in the methods section.
Thanks to Bee for pointing it out….

Thank you Saint for your encouraging words…

Regards,
MJ-

Thanks MJ. Sorry to come back again with another query — 60 minute flow is my lifeline and hence need to get all its aspect crystal clear. Again coming to adds and the method detailed in this forum:

(c) Preferably, we should Add the same quantity as we had in our initial trade. However, care should be taken so as to ensure our Money management system should be comfortable with the size of Adds we take.

In NF, it is recommended 3 adds. I was somehow under the impression that adds are pyramided. Was trying to find out how I got this impression but could not find the relevant post anywhere. By pyramiding I mean, if we enter a trade with 5 lots, then next add would be 3 lots, next 2 and the last 1, in case of NF. Here it is recommended all adds should be of 5 lots i.e., 5 initial + 5 + 5 + 5 (3) adds.

I know all depends upon personal money management but what exactly should the rule say? Pyramid adds or equal adds? Lets forget about the money management part for this query.

Thanks

Bee

Hi Bee,
Actually the way to do things is to keep adds equal to initial positions for the first add.
On the 2nd add I would take 3/4^ths and then 3^rd add the smallest positon, say 1/4^th or 2/4^ths....

All keeping MM in check, so suppose trading Aban and you take a large position(for the sake of an example) and the next bar is WRB, system says take an add, that even though being the 1st add, will naturally be very small, as stops wouldn't have moved much.

This is what I prefer. Different traders have different approaches.
Rakesh will pyramid outright, his approach is similar to your's.
ST and me have about the same approach

As always those above are my opinions, will need someone expereinced to answer, If Saint could explain his way of doing things would be great

Thankx Bee,
Always love answering your questions as it helps review my plan as well.

Regards,
MJ-

Thankyou MJ

Lets see what Saint and others have to say on this. Then the change in the wording, if needed, can be made in the method rules.

Bee

Hello *,

I was going thr the 60 min flow method rules.

What is the difference between failed breakout bar reversal and EOD bar reversal?

Can I term EOD bar reversal as Failed Breakdown? (just trying to understand if I understood correctly. Terms do not matter to me)

If I understood correctly then
For failed breakout -> reverse below low of breakout bar - filter.
For failed breakdown -> reverse above the pivot (not above the high of breakdown + Filter)

my Q is why we there is difference in the rule of when to reverse? Result of backtesting via charts?

kaiser

You have rightly understood the reversals for the failed breakout / breakdown.
Now let's come to EOD reversal. Suppose we are long with a SAR at last pivot low. Now this pivot low - filter is taken out. So, we reverse to shorts. Now if just before the close of the market, the price comes above the pivot low that was broken, we reverse. Here the high of the breakdown bar was not taken out, but even then since the market was near close and the reason that had put us in trade was negated, we reverse. Hence without there being a breakdown failure, we have reversed.

Hope this makes it clear.

Kapil

Hello *,

I was going thr the 60 min flow method rules.

What is the difference between failed breakout bar reversal and EOD bar reversal?

Can I term EOD bar reversal as Failed Breakdown? (just trying to understand if I understood correctly. Terms do not matter to me)

If I understood correctly then
For failed breakout -> reverse below low of breakout bar - filter.
For failed breakdown -> reverse above the pivot (not above the high of breakdown + Filter)

my Q is why we there is difference in the rule of when to reverse? Result of backtesting via charts?

kaiser

Hi Kaiser,
A consolidation and one bar taking out all the resistance and closing at new highs. This bar is a breakout bar. If the lows of this bar is taken out, the breakout is negated and we reverse to shorts. That's the logic and setup for a breakout-failure

The next scenario is only applicable on fresh reversals. When we have a fresh reversal we need some proof that the trend infact has changed and its just some market spike which took us out.

We are long In Jpassociates, We get a PL(906) and we as usual move stops below the Pivot- Filter(906-6). At 2:30 we have price falling through the PL and hitting our sell order at 900….we are short and happy….
Now, at 3:15 about we review the situation, prices now have rebounded after hitting our short price and are above the PL, meaning above 906 or near abouts. Just before close we do the EOD reversal.
All shorts are covered and we get back in longs with the previous adds. this is at whatever price we get at closing, no filter nothing, no need. The market no longer looks bearish and the flow is still upwards!

EDIT : Sorry, didn't see kapil has already replied….much simpler, explained it much better. Thanks Kapil!
Regards,
MJ-

Thanks to both,

Doubt got clear-> which lead to one more doubt.
For both breakout bar failure, the e.g. is of Long -> Short
For EOD reversal, e.g. is of Short -> Long

Both both of these, is Vice Versa Applicable?

Kaiser.

Yes Kaiser.

+ EOD reversal.

We are long, reverse to shorts below PL,price trades above PL near closing revert to longs
We are short, reverse to longs above PL crack, price trades below PL near closing, rever to shorts again.

+ Breakout failure

We are long , we have a breakout above consolidation. Price suddenly falls, our reversal point to shorts is below breakout bar.
We are short, we have a breakdown bar below consolidation. Price suddenly jumps up, our reversal point is above breakdown bar high.

Regards,
MJ

Perfect. All clear now, MJ.

Thanks.

Hello *,

I was going thr the 60 min flow method rules.

What is the difference between failed breakout bar reversal and EOD bar reversal?

Can I term EOD bar reversal as Failed Breakdown? (just trying to understand if I understood correctly. Terms do not matter to me)

If I understood correctly then
For failed breakout -> reverse below low of breakout bar - filter.
For failed breakdown -> reverse above the pivot (not above the high of breakdown + Filter)

my Q is why we there is difference in the rule of when to reverse? Result of backtesting via charts?

kaiser

Kaiser,

The way we deal with a Breakout Bar Failure on the 60 and the Minflow is different from each other………….As your question is about the 60min Flow,let us focus on the 60min BBF and how we deal with it.

A Breakout Bar is a strong pattern,its Failure an equally strong one on the reverse…….The moment we get a Breakout Bar,we raise our stops on the 60min Flow to the most recent pivot low.On completion of the WRB,raise stops to the low of that Bar-filter.Vice versa for shorts…………..No difference in treatment for long and short.

Instead of a WRB Breakout,we got a breakout………weakish,limpish……..our stops remain at previous pivot lows.

They are both breakouts/breakdowns………….and the failure is a breakout bar failure/breakdown bar failure in both instances….but the handling is different with respect to the strength of the breakout.

Hope this clarifies,Kaiser.

All the best!

Saint

Thanks MJ. Sorry to come back again with another query — 60 minute flow is my lifeline and hence need to get all its aspect crystal clear. Again coming to adds and the method detailed in this forum:

(c) Preferably, we should Add the same quantity as we had in our initial trade. However, care should be taken so as to ensure our Money management system should be comfortable with the size of Adds we take.

In NF, it is recommended 3 adds. I was somehow under the impression that adds are pyramided. Was trying to find out how I got this impression but could not find the relevant post anywhere. By pyramiding I mean, if we enter a trade with 5 lots, then next add would be 3 lots, next 2 and the last 1, in case of NF. Here it is recommended all adds should be of 5 lots i.e., 5 initial + 5 + 5 + 5 (3) adds.

I know all depends upon personal money management but what exactly should the rule say? Pyramid adds or equal adds? Lets forget about the money management part for this query.

Thanks

Bee

Hi Bee,

Different traders with their different minds and different stomachs will have to resort to what makes them most comfortable………….no absolutes in the adds.

Personally,if 1% is my risk,and I can buy,say 10 lots…..I would only be buying 5 lots.I personally prefer to add with equal lots…so from your example,5+5+5+5…….All the while,eyes on risk management.If the next add just can't take 5 lots as it would skew the risk management topsy turvy,and I can manage only 3,then 3 it is…………I prefer equal lots,but keeping the risk down is still most important.

Saint

Kaiser,

The way we deal with a Breakout Bar Failure on the 60 and the Minflow is different from each other………….As your question is about the 60min Flow,let us focus on the 60min BBF and how we deal with it.

A Breakout Bar is a strong pattern,its Failure an equally strong one on the reverse…….The moment we get a Breakout Bar,we raise our stops on the 60min Flow to the most recent pivot low.On completion of the WRB,raise stops to the low of that Bar-filter.Vice versa for shorts…………..No difference in treatment for long and short.

Instead of a WRB Breakout,we got a breakout………weakish,limpish……..our stops remain at previous pivot lows.

They are both breakouts/breakdowns………….and the failure is a breakout bar failure/breakdown bar failure in both instances….but the handling is different with respect to the strength of the breakout.

Hope this clarifies,Kaiser.

All the best!

crystal clear…

Thanks…

Kaiser..

Thank you Saint for a clear and concise answer
Bee

Thank you Saint, MJ, Kapil,

Friends above posts on EOD reversals and breakdown/out and their failures are gems and should go into personal archives which I am sure each flow trader is maintaining as his Bible.

Hard to believe that a teenager (MJ) has such fantastic insight into this method.

Guess the young mind is sharper but we oldies can take heart to the fact that Bill Clinton in one of his interviews said that the brain, even in old age, makes new pathways (essentially he meant that senility can be stopped and even reversed. Sincerely hope it is true). Haha

Bee

Hard to believe that a teenager (MJ) has such fantastic insight into this method.
Guess the young mind is sharper but we oldies can take heart to the fact that Bill Clinton in one of his interviews said that the brain, even in old age, makes new pathways (essentially he meant that senility can be stopped and even reversed. Sincerely hope it is true). Haha

Bee

LOL Bee…..I was lucky to have a great teacher, and lots of individual attention *wink wink*

Regards,
MJ-

i want to post mcx and commex gold data(15mnts).
if allowed by the moderator.

rgrds
NR

Dear Seniors,

i have been a silent follower of this method.Wish to clear a few doubts before i can tkae to trading,i am confused by something in the tutorials. There is a mention of shorting below the 5 min bar and also says that it has to be confirmed by the 30 min bar.what does this mean.

Regards
Milind

PS : Saint this system is indeed is very reliable and incredible and not complicated at all. God bless you for sharing this with everyone.

Thank you for your kind words,Milind.

Simply put,Milind……….if the first bar breaks down,short it below the moving filter.No confirmation of any kind required.

Anything else,do post here……and MJ will get back to you tomorrow to clear up your doubts.

Saint

Is it a e.g. of Failed EOD Reversal?

Kaiser.

Kaiser,

If it is pivot that makes you reverse the trade from long to short, then yes it a an example of failed EOD reversal.
But if it is a pivot where we add to out initial short positions, then no EOD reversal here.
In trading nothing works 100% for sure. So, we should be ready to take the failed EOD reversals in our stride too.

Kapil

Thanks Kapil.

In trading nothing works 100% for sure. So, we should be ready to take the failed EOD reversals in our stride too.

Very true. Not making the mistake of trying to find out near-perfect system (which i did initially :-) )
Also never tried to fine-tune the system too much. As Saint had said, more parameters may disturb the flow.
Just was going thr charts. Was trying to find out few e.g.

Kaiser.

Kaiser,

If it is pivot that makes you reverse the trade from long to short, then yes it a an example of failed EOD reversal.
But if it is a pivot where we add to out initial short positions, then no EOD reversal here.
In trading nothing works 100% for sure. So, we should be ready to take the failed EOD reversals in our stride too.

Kapil,

Could not understand the highlighted portion? Why if it is an add point then EOD reversal in not valid?

Bee

Hello Beethoven,

The EOD reversal and Failed Breakout rules are applicable when the position is shifted from Long to short or vice versa, not for the add part.
The idea is when in long, then if SL hit and position is shifted to short, This might be false move caused by profit booking etc.

Kaiser.

Bee,

Basically we take EOD reversal only for the initial trades. Suppose we are long with 2 adds (say a total of 9 lots) and a pivot low (say 2750)- filter gets cracked and we reverse to shorts (say 3 lots). But when the market is about to close, we see that the scrip is trading above the pivot low (say trading at 2752) that had put us in trade, we reverse to longs with full initial positions (i.e. we go long in 9 lots again). This is EOD reversal.

Now take another example. Let us say we are short with one add (say a total of 6 lots) and have a pivot low at say 2750. This pivot low gets cracked and our add is triggered (say now we have 9 lots). Now when the market is about to close, we see that scrip is trading above the pivot low that had triggered our adds (say it is trading at 2752). We do nothing. We continue with the shorts.

Kapil

Thanks Kapil/Kaiser, very nice and clear explanation. Bee

Dear Saint,
Thank you for your respose, i will short if the first bar breaks down.ie short below the 5 min bar + filter. I am really sorry if i sound stupid, its just that i never cleared my doubts, and have too many questions. Can anyone please explain to me the 2 bar method. if we are following pivots then how do we know when the 2 bar rule has come into play.i think it was mentioned that we change our stops to the 2 consecutive bullish or bearish bars ami right.

Regards
Milind

This might help for 2bar

Nitin

Dear Saint,
Can anyone please explain to me the 2 bar method. if we are following pivots then how do we know when the 2 bar rule has come into play.i think it was mentioned that we change our stops to the 2 consecutive bullish or bearish bars ami right.

Regards
Milind

Although addressed to saint , I will attempt an answer.

Its actually quite simple milind. We follow pivots all the way. Now suppose we are long NF at say 2800, price shoots to 2950 is 3 straight WRB bars. Our stops haven't moved, still at pivot. So if market dumps our short entry will be very late and so will the exiting of the longs.

Therefore whenever we get multiple wrb in our direction, we trail stops to 2 bars back. Backtesting and real trades also show that such points are great places to reverse trade as well.
So our SAR is 2 bars back in such scenarios, why? well because WRB's dont have pivots :)

Do get back if any trouble…
Regards,
MJ-

Great charts nitinsy, thankx…..

MJ

Good chart Nitin….Good going…

Kaiser…

Dear Mj,

Thanks a ton for the reply. few more questions.

1) If the 5 min low is 2800 and high is 2850. if it breaks below that i short and above that i long.Am i correct? PS this is for a fresh trade.
2) What if i am already short say i have shorted 2 lots and at opening the stock or future moves above the 5 min high, ie above the 5 min bar + filter, do i reverse my 2 shorts and go long?
3) as per back testing which is the best filter for nifty. 7 or 12.?

I am really sorry for asking so many questions, the reason being that i will be on leave for a week in april and i am going to trade in that time,i need your support as this is a new method which i have not tried.

Hi milind.
I think you will find your answer here.

IF still in doubt, it would be my humble request to kindly rephrase the question and possible support it with a chart.

Regards,
MJ-

Its actually quite simple milind. We follow pivots all the way. Now suppose we are long NF at say 2800, price shoots to 2950 is 3 straight WRB bars. Our stops haven't moved, still at pivot. So if market dumps our short entry will be very late and so will the exiting of the longs. Therefore whenever we get multiple wrb in our direction, we trail stops to 2 bars back. Backtesting and real trades also show that such points are great places to reverse trade as well.So our SAR is 2 bars back in such scenarios, why? well because WRB's dont have pivots :) quoted text

Just to add to what you said MJ…having a steepish move with 1-2 biggish bars (which may or maynot be WRBs), with pivots far away would also trigger in the 2 bar method. Have a look at last few days moves in Nifty and the place we reversed today.

So…a steepish move…having at least 1-2 WRBs or Biggish bars….pivots far away….and we are ready with the 2 bar reversal.

Puneet

FAILED BREAKOUT BAR REVERSAL:
Whether we are sitting with initial positions or with adds, a failure of a breakout/breakdown is a great place to reverse and capitalize on.

Breakout Failure for Fresh Position is clear. The above means even if we get a BO Failure on any of the ADD points and beyond we reverse and do nor wait for Pivot Break.

Is this applicable to all the scrip futures or only NF ?

Thanks
Rajesh

Breakout Failure for Fresh Position is clear. The above means even if we get a BO Failure on any of the ADD points and beyond we reverse and do nor wait for Pivot Break.

Is this applicable to all the scrip futures or only NF ?

Thanks
Rajesh

I would use it whenever it comes actually.

I would use it whenever it comes actually.

Hello MJ

Didn't get it

Is this applicable to all the scrip futures or only NF ?

Thanks
Rajesh

Breakout Failure for Fresh Position is clear. The above means even if we get a BO Failure on any of the ADD points and beyond we reverse and do nor wait for Pivot Break.

Is this applicable to all the scrip futures or only NF ?

Thanks
Rajesh

It is applicable for all scrips including NF.

Regards,
Kapil

Thanks Kapil

Kaiser,

The way we deal with a Breakout Bar Failure on the 60 and the Minflow is different from each other………….As your question is about the 60min Flow,let us focus on the 60min BBF and how we deal with it.

A Breakout Bar is a strong pattern,its Failure an equally strong one on the reverse…….The moment we get a Breakout Bar,we raise our stops on the 60min Flow to the most recent pivot low.On completion of the WRB,raise stops to the low of that Bar-filter.Vice versa for shorts…………..No difference in treatment for long and short.

Instead of a WRB Breakout,we got a breakout………weakish,limpish……..our stops remain at previous pivot lows.

They are both breakouts/breakdowns………….and the failure is a breakout bar failure/breakdown bar failure in both instances….but the handling is different with respect to the strength of the breakout.

Hope this clarifies,Kaiser.

All the best!

Saint

If the very next Bar after the WRB, doesn't break the Low of the WRB, do we move the SAR back to the previous valid PL and allow future Bars to form a new natural PL above the previous PL.

Reagards
Narahari

Dear Seniors,

wanted to confirm in todays bars the PH is 3014 and the SAR would be as per the 2 bar rule would be 2954-filter. am i right ???

Regards
Milind

Right on PH. eSignal has high as 3015.80. For the 2 bar I am assuming you are asking about reversal point today. It was at 2966-f (2nd bar low)

Nitin

If the very next Bar after the WRB, doesn't break the Low of the WRB, do we move the SAR back to the previous valid PL and allow future Bars to form a new natural PL above the previous PL.

Reagards
Narahari

No Narahari,……that point where you got a WRB is your new SAR.The total negation of that bar is indication of a reversal anyway.

The new raised SAR point stays as it is.

All the best!
Saint

I have a query pertaining to Bank Nifty - Can we apply 2 Bar rule for bank Nifty on yesterday as it had excellent vertical upmove? If yes - 2 Bar rule should be applied from 12PM Bar (SAR at 10AM Bar - f) or at 1PM Bar (SAR at 11AM Bar - f)? I am confused, the first 10AM Bar is gap up bar - so thinking should we wait for couple of bars before we apply 2 Bar rule and hence apply 2 Bar rule from 1PM Bar…

I am confused —- please guide…

Cheers,

Heems

I have a query pertaining to Bank Nifty - Can we apply 2 Bar rule for bank Nifty on yesterday as it had excellent vertical upmove? If yes - 2 Bar rule should be applied from 12PM Bar (SAR at 10AM Bar - f) or at 1PM Bar (SAR at 11AM Bar - f)? I am confused, the first 10AM Bar is gap up bar - so thinking should we wait for couple of bars before we apply 2 Bar rule and hence apply 2 Bar rule from 1PM Bar…

I am confused —- please guide…

Cheers,

Heems

First of all, Heems, extremely sorry for replying so late. Somehow missed your post.

For 2 bar lets go through BankNifty and Nifty and compare the two, shall we? For two bar we need a steep more with (obviously) no pivots, then we use the 2 bar for assistance. So as soon as we get a vertical move, switch to 2 bar immediately.

Bank nifty, We are long and in the morning (24th) we get a gap up and first bar closes very strong. The next bar is even stronger, as soon as we see this We move stops to the low of the last bar on the 23rd. Also remember, we DONT wait for the bar to close etc… we move stops as bars make newer highs.
12pm we make a new high! great, move stops to low of opening bar on the 24th.
Then no new highs….stops dont move and we are still long. No reversal Yet.

Nifty.
On 24th, we are still making newer highs and have been trailing stops to 2 bars back for a while now. The moment we stop making a new HH, we stop trailing and wait for a pivot to form, if not, we get stopped out and reverse.
After the 1pm bar we have no newer highs. Our stops hence are at the low of 11 pm bar.

Two different scenarios. Hope its all clear now.

Please ask again if something still the matter.

Regards,
MJ-

Dear Seniors ,

Please can someone explain to me eod technique, i have gone thorguh the method section. but am no table to understand, can someone please explain with levels for any day in th epast one month for nifty, as that is the only hourly chart i have.

Regards
Milind

MJ: Thanks for wonderful explanation; you have explained it very well.

Bank nifty, we are long and in the morning (24th) we get a gap up and first bar closes very strong. The next bar is even stronger, as soon as we see this We move stops to the low of the last bar on the 23rd. – I have a follow-up question, here in this case do we put SAR at low of the last bar on the 23rd or close of 23rd? While I am going through threads on Nifty forum – there is a post by Saint indicating to imagine a gap as WRB and put SAR at low of that WRB, which is equal to close of yesterday.

Sorry for asking too many questions – I have one more with respect to Bank NF – as of now while we have SAR at low of 10AM bar on 24/03, where do look for adds – would it be at high of 24/03 (12PM bar) + f ?

Cheers,

Heems

Hi Heems,

To the first question,the close of the last bar.

To the second one,yes,over the highs of the 12pm bar.

Not asking too many questions at all,part of the learning process……so keep em coming!

All the best!
Saint

Thanks Saint..

Couple more questions with respect to filters

Nifty Filters: For SAR around 20 and for adds around 7 (this figures may vary slightly for each one), is that a fair understanding?

Bank Nifty Filters - For SAR around 30 and for adds around 10 (this figures may vary slightly for each one), is that a fair understanding?

Cheers,

Heems

Dear Seniors,

request you to please post on EOD technique, i am unable to understand.

How can I upload a PDF file or a word file? I want members to see and examine a strategy, I have formulated. It is in a PDF file in my computer.

Thanks

Bee

How can I upload a PDF file or a word file? I want members to see and examine a strategy, I have formulated. It is in a PDF file in my computer.

Thanks

Bee

Hello Bee…
Not sure. But have read something like you can not attach. You may have to upload somewhere else and provide the link. (I could not search that post. Because I could not find search facility. Is there any way to search posts? )

Kaiser.

Thanks Kaiser

You should go to sleep. I have uploaded the file. Please read it — not tonight - will spoil your sleep. Maybe over the weekend.

Bee

Pivot question. See attached image

Nitin

Nitin,

There are many aspects to your question…..but will try to make it as precise as possible.

Yes..it is a Pivot…though an aggressive one. Ones who needs at least 2 bars with lower highs surrounding the pivot, wont take it as a Pivot.

However, it maynot be an appropriate SAR…..the earlier lows would be needed to be crossed. Also this is a sideways move after a WRBish bar….so flag formation here too cant be ruled out.

All this assuming you trade these charts as you do the daily or 60min charts. Though trading the monthlies has its own diff methodology.

Puneet