Trading With The Flow!!!

Opening this thread to queries on the Move 1/2 Concept……the thread "Demystifying the Flow" will remain locked so that all my stuff can be on one thread.

This thread means that I will post a reply……it does not mean that others who have chewed and swallowed this method can't.So,I am expecting some help from all those who have understood thos concept.

At the very outset,allow me to apologise if answers don't come out from me in quick succession,but I will do my best to quell all doubts……..once again,a gentle reminder,questions in a decent manner,and answers in a gentle manner,whatever the doubt may be.

Saint

ps:Please focus the discussions and questions about that particular concept alone so that others at a later date can easily read and understand.

Thank you Saint for the thread. Very organized places to clear doubts now.

Regards,
MJ-

Kapil SAID:

A very good question Amit.

The concept of Move 1, Move 2 and pivots is to cover some of the scenarios that occur in market.
Let us say we have a limp move 1, and then the break of pivot low. We go short using the small filter.

Now let us say, we have 2-3 strong bullish bars and then a pullback bar, giving us a PH. Now if the next bar makes new high, we go long with small filter again.
Now if you 2 big bullish bars and then a big bearish bar, next small bullish bar and next bar is down, again small filter is used on break of pivot.

The problem comes when we get multiple higher pivot highs and lows in sideways move, with all small bars, there we keep on applying the big filter for entering long. Saint has created a new thread for discussions for the same.

Kapil thank you for answering the question. In turn it has raised another question.

Some of our esteemed seniors have a way to tackle a dull scenario such as today. Where there are no pivots AND the movfil is not filled. There are just 5 continous dull up 30min bars.

To begin with, the problem they are facing is, if they wait for LOD-Mf to cross then they lose 40 points of action. So they consider this upward drag of 5 up bars as move 1. In absence of pivots they use the prev bar low for entry. So they are going to go short below the immediately previous 30 min bar low-sf. So I ask, has such an adaptation of move 1 concept been discussed earlier in the mother-thread? Has Saint approved it yet or is it a new development?

The above question of yours Amit has been answered in the Intraday NF miniflow thread.
A small request to keep questions at relevant and single place only, as questions at multiple places can cause confusion. That would make things easier for all.
Posting the answer here as well

We have had a straight upmove till now. If a pivot low is to be formed now, what would be the price action ( I mean what kind of further bars would there be)?

My question was regarding the price action and not where we would enter the trade.
Anyways, after so many bullish bars there is always a possibility of a pullback so as to give a pivot. Now this pullback can take out the lows of previous few bars, so does it justify going short on previous bar's low? The answer is NO. The pullback is not a sign of weakness.

Kapil

Hello,

On which bar is move1 confirmed on the chart:

Thanks

Good approach Arm/Flock. Lets start at the beginning, a very good place to start.

At the other place, we were under the impression that Move 1 concept is used to basically quickly catch a reversal. However, now we realize that it is used to keep false entries at Ph/Pl at bay by using Mf instead of SF. So, please take the trouble of making a few posts on this front. Thank you.

Amit.

Hi Flock,

Let us go bar by bar…………..

BAR 1:Okay,we put in our MovFil in either direction and entry if triggers.

BAR 2:Higher highs and lows,Mov Fil above this bar's high or 1st bar's low.

BAR 3:Hmmm,higher highs and lows again…….still not triggerred.Mov Fil above Bar 3's High

BAR 4:Okay,small bearish bar…..let's see.We have a potential pivot here,provided BAR 5 takes out the previous highs and goes on to make newer highs.Right,wait n watch mode with hands on trigger.

BAR 5:Instead we get a Bearish Bar,not triggerring our Mov Fil.

BAR 6:Another bullish bar……….now on the 60,we have a WRB Bearish bar closing at its lows,and the next bar more than half of this bar.15min chart gives confirmation.We go long with sf on timeframe amalgamation.

BAR 7:Taking out pivot highs on 30,Add 1 point.

BAR 8:Small bearish bar ….okay,nothing to be done.Wait n watch.

BAR 9:New highs….raise stops to low of Bar 8.

BAR 10:Still holding longs

BAR 11&12:Not given in your charts.

Did Move1/2 happen on this day……………No……….Did Move 1 at least happen?Well,at BAR 4,we got that small bearish bar,and imagine if Bar 5 was another small bearish bar,and Bar6 and 7 were again smallish bull bars but taking out the previous pivot highs……we say that we are in Move 1.We are now expecting not to go long,but to short a break of pivot.

So,in this particular chart,on this particular day………………..did Move 1 happen?Answer:No.

Saint

Thanks a lot Sir. That makes things crystal clear.

Great to hear that Flock……

All the best!
Saint

Hi Flock,

That chart you put on display was of what date? I think my charting s/w just went cuckoo…

Thanks Saint. Helpful explaination.

Hello Saint,

In the Demystifying… thread you showed an eg of move 1, where you enter above a pivot high with sf. Right?

My question: Are we not supposed to enter at ALL pivot breaks with sf? So how does the move 1 concept help?

Amit

Hi Amit,

Their entries are both using the same filter……..their quality is different.One is a clear cut pivot,no issues there.The other,the eye tends to miss.Usually in a sideways move or a move given in the chart by Flock,the MovFil is operational.And that too,below the day's low.Identifying a pattern as Move 1 and shorting it with a smaller filter at a much earlier time gives us a head start in that short trade.

What is the difference in all pivots,the filters that is?Nothing…..they are all using the small filter.What is the difference between the clear cut pivot and the Move 1…….ah,a world of difference.In patterns that is.Move 1/2 was not designed to be different from a normal pivot breakout.Instead,Move 1/2 was designed to be different from a sideways pattern……….what the mind does not know,the eye does not see…..and that move is mistakenly thought of as a sideways move and the end result isthat the trader is still waiting with MovFils below the low of day,while the second trader jumps in with a small filter at a break of mini pivot.

So,now,the real practice is no more in which filter and why…………..instead the real practice is to differentiate it from a sideways pattern.This pattern and trade is deceptive……..once shown,everyone sees it clearly.To see it and trade it as it happens with conviction and certainty,is another issue.

Feel free to ask if any more doubts,Amit………..will be glad to answer.

All the best!
Saint

Hit me right between the eyes. Major cobwebs cleaned… tks Saint.
It is the subtlety of the pivots in a sideways pattern that we must uncover and trade. Tks again.

Amit
> PS: Indenting feature is pretty cool

Great to hear that,Amit……..:)

Saint

Amit,

That chart was fixed by me. So you wont find it in your charts :)
Some pulling around the 23rd chart I guess.

Rgds.

pleaseharsh asks

sir …as concept thread is blocked i m putting my question over here regarding conecpt 1/2

"When the latest pivot low is broken to the down,this is what we mean by Move 2…..our entry on the short side is below the low of the previous pivot low -small filter.From that time,it is all about the small filters."

questions :
1)our pl is broken but fails to take out filter so no trade…then next bar makes new low but again no trade…should we move the sf to this new low for short entry or it still remains at pl-sf ?
2) we get move2…then we get 3-4 consecutive lh,ll but none of them getting us into short trade (i m assuming sf is moved bar by bar to new low for short entry) and our move1 ph is very far up…then wt would be our long entry ? prev bar high +sf or still at that initial ph+sf ?

thankyou
harsh

Hi Harsh,

Great question as always…..

To No1…….the MovFil is no more operational.Small filters if hit in the first bar or 2nd will get us into the reversal trade.Once MovFils stop operations,no more usage of it.Then it's all usual stuff.

To No 2……….think it null and void now.

Anything else,get back to me,Harsh.

All the best!
Saint

ohh k….thanks for the answer….