Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
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Started by: beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint
On: 1238096960|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover
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Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238096960|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Friends,

I am uploading a file detailing my strategy for daily chart trading in Goldmini and a profit taking strategy without leaving too much on the table.

Please go through this critically and come out with flaws and pitfalls.

A million thanks to Saint, my teacher and a bow to my fellow esteemed readers who have taught me so much and will continue to do so in future also.

Am giving the link to the file as below:

http://rapidshare.com/files/213877665/Treatise_on_daily_bars.pdf

Regards

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Saint001Saint001 1238097219|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thank you for your warm remarks,Bee…….and thanks for the file.

All the best!
Saint

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238097508|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thank you for your warm remarks,Bee…….and thanks for the file.

All the best!
Saint

WOW Saint Sir,

That was fast. Am honoured that you are reading my file.

Please do send your comments.

Thanks

Bee

Last edited on 1238097612|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By beethovenwithsaint + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238121036|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Correction of error.

In the file uploaded. In case 3 (page 2, diagram), Bar 5 label is incorrect. It should be removed. Sorry for this silly error.

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
MusicjunkieMusicjunkie 1238126587|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thanks bee alot for the file…
Downloaded it….

Regards,
MJ-

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238128219|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

MJ

I want critical study. Thanks.

Friends,

For Goldmini current contract:

Please go thru the file. March 25 low was not cracked on March 26. So our stop is at March 24 high. March 24 bar is a healthy bar of around 360 points. ATR 80 is around 311.

The trend has stopped and a lower PH is under formation. We are only willing to wait till the above stop for a lower PH to form. Otherwise we exit and wait for a new entry.

Lets see how things turn out.

I am not happy with this flag formation. Will devise another profit taking strategy which is still at cooking up stage.

Bee

Last edited on 1238128368|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By beethovenwithsaint + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
SatyenSatyen 1238129849|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thanks bee will download it and try to learn it

Regards
Satya


Regards
Satya

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
ASHA SHUKLAASHA SHUKLA 1238129881|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thanks Bee. Downloaded the file. Presently I am paper trading Gold mini as per 60 Minutes flow. In coming holidays I am going to study your profit taking strategy in details. Seems you have taken lot of pain in formulating the strategy.
Thank you very much.

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
pchadha74pchadha74 1238130325|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Wow Bee Sir…..what an apt gift for the weekend.

Will go through it in detail and add/subtract to it as per my understanding…

Thanks again…and keep them coming..

Puneet

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238133576|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thankyou Asha, Satya, Puneet,

Gratifying response from you all. Please revert with your valuable comments.

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
kapil123kapil123 1238133868|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

A great mind you have Bee.
Thanks for the efforts that you keep putting in, for sharing the thoughts and in the process educating us all.

Kapil

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238134266|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thankyou Kapil for your kind words.

Am trying to survive. My trading account is in very bad shape :-(

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
prabhjeetranaprabhjeetrana 1238135137|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Bee I was looking to have a totally relaxed weekend but you have made sure I work in the weekend too, thanks for giving The Home Work ;)

BTW, have you done any Backtests for the strategies, if yes then can you plz. share them.


The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238135788|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Prabh,

My file is easy reading, not very cerebral. Should not take much of your weekend.

I have eyeballed last two years daily charts for which I am grateful to Neeraj who gave us this data. Plus I have paper traded this for sometime. Now I am trying real trading, but we are now caught in a flag in gold. So lets see how I survive this strategy.

One area I would like you all to see in conjunction with the profit taking strategy that I have given out, it the possibility of taking profits at 6 to 12 bar congestion point we get often on 60 min gold charts. This will be breaking the golden rule of breaking a TF for profit taking but then no harm in applying our minds.

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
prabhjeetranaprabhjeetrana 1238137845|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

My file is easy reading, not very cerebral. Should not take much of your weekend

I know your file is very small and would not take too much of time to read but the thing that will consume time is Backtesting of Charts, will try your technique not only on Gold but other securities as well. And plz. dont take my statement as a comment, it is actually a compliment to your Hard Work

Cheers


The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238138884|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thank you Prabh,

It will be an honour for me if you spend time studying and backtesting this strategy. Please put this under microscope and examine critically.

The principles especially bar by bar movement is something which is more suitable for higher time frame like daily and above - not meant to be tried on lower TFs.

In lower TF, Pivots are the best.

Though I would love to give this a shot on 4 hours TF on commodity and Forex as and when I get to trade in it (forex).

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238955085|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

18 downloads of the file uploaded by me but not a single comment:-(

Have I uploaded trash?

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
pchadha74pchadha74 1238990307|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Dont even think on those lines Bee. Only good will come out of what you write and think.

I had gone through the file in detail. However, there were a few issues I faced…and was trying to find an answer to them myself before asking you.

1. What catagory does this strategy form part of? Short term, long term, fast sniper on daily…intraday….for what TF did you design this for.

2. Once you answer this question…..you wil realise where can this be modified to suit that tf. Generally…I found that there is very little space given to prices to correct.

3. This strategy would work wonderfully in a trending market…and fail in a range bound one. Agree with me on this?

4. If you dont agree..great. If you do agree….more relevant to give some more space to the prices to correct.

Few more poiints…but let me get your views on the above first. Also..I found a great use of it..though in intraday trading. Will discuss after markets, again a weekend today.

Great effort Bee…sorry if I am trying to push you more….aim is to get more out of you.

Thanks again,
Puneet

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1238992125|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Many thanks, Puneet, for giving a thought to this and would attempt to answer your questions in a while as this requires some thought.
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1239009780|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Puneet,

Many thanks for giving a thought to this and would attempt to answer your questions as under:

1. What catagory does this strategy form part of? Short term, long term, fast sniper on daily…intraday….for what TF did you design this for.

As the heading suggests, this is for daily bars primarily based on data backtest for two years and my limited experience of trading the daily bars of Goldmini contracts on MCX. The idea is to formalise a profit taking strategy. Unlike shares and NF where the trading range is much bigger and prices can go beyond the previously reached highs or in case of market’s bad sentiment, the prices can crash also beyond the expected lows, in case of gold, the range is limited and meanders slowly in this range. Please note we are here to be in the trade as much as possible and take profits and also not let our profits turn to losses. Having said this, Gold is always in a range so waiting for higher Pivot lows to shift our SAR is only when we see a situation like in case 3. There too we are willing to give up our gains till bar 3 low or if it is a NRB then we can shift our SAR to last PL. Most of the times Gold will make a new PL near about last PL where our SAR is and then we will loose our gains painstaking got after many days. So even in a flag we make some money not much but we will not loose out. Re-entry is any way at a pivot break again which is a high probability success trade.

The basic difference here from the classic flow method is – we take profits at certain situations, as described. We exit and wait for new entry. No point in being in the trade when prices reverse into the territory already conquered (that is gained by previous upswing) and giving up the gains. This is the main difference.

Now the question arises, are we exiting prematurely? There has to be a trade off. Reliability aspect of daily candle sticks are discussed in the next para but the patterns discussed in the strategy give optimum solutions to my mind.

I would like to emphasis that daily candles are very reliable unlike smaller time frame. Lots of research by Bulkowski and Nison are basically on daily candles as they give very high probability predictive character. Bulkowski’s magnum opus on candles patterns is based on one day TF. So I have taken a leaf from their experience and applied to all situations we are going to encounter as described in the strategy.

The study will extend into finer art of other patterns, which I do not want to bring in at this juncture as it is still under evolutionary stage.

I will not recommend to apply the patterns as described on smaller TF or on 60 min flow method which is already a very well thought out method and all areas have been really hammered out well in this forum and the mother thread plus having the main advantage of Saint’s thought.

This method will work in a trending time is not a point of much debate and also when it is in tight range. Please note any trend in Gold will be of 3 to 4 days and we keep on shifting our stop (not SAR) to the bottom of the bar whose high has been taken out. So you can check for yourself – it will move into green territory fast, it will also not give very high losses plus it will give us a grandstand view point to see if we are walking into a flag formation or not as we are normally not entering the trade again the same day. Daily charts give the advantage of analysis at EOD and entry of a well thought out trade again.

Please back test this for the last flag in gold and you will see this does not loose much money, in fact some minor gain is there. Again as this gives a birds eye view of the situation we can always choose to avoid trading within the flag.

2. Once you answer this question…..you wil realise where can this be modified to suit that tf. Generally…I found that there is very little space given to prices to correct.

This is for the daily candle bars. Not for smaller TFs. Only situation 3 gives scope for higher PL to form and for that we have set a limit to what we are willing to let go of our profits before exiting. Beyond that we look to reenter at pivot break in either direction.

3. This strategy would work wonderfully in a trending market…and fail in a range bound one. Agree with me on this?

I have tried to explain this in my reply to point 1 above. This strategy is basically for range bound commodity like gold — in a tighter range we can either choose to stay out or try this strategy with lesser amount of gains.

4. If you dont agree..great. If you do agree….more relevant to give some more space to the prices to correct.

More space for prices to correct – all possible scenarios I have discussed in the strategy outlined. This strategy takes into account the extent or willingness on our part to let go of profits for prices to correct or form a higher PL.

Hope the above is clear. My idea is to pick the brains of some of the best traders here to see if any flaw in the logic is there or not.

Please bring out more of your points so that I can dwell on those too. My strategy is by no means complete nor foolproof. Lots of scope is there. One area is to bring in more complex patterns for action but that will be a practicing art, which will evolve as we trade along longer.

This is the thought process behind the strategy. I think I should have written this in the file uploaded. Sorry for this omission.

Look forward to your comments

Thanks

Bee

Last edited on 1239125106|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By beethovenwithsaint + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
pchadha74pchadha74 1239010848|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thanks Bee Sir…will read and respond after the mkts.

Puneet

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
MukthaMuktha 1239242782|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Bee

I have gone thro' your strategy for Gold trading on daily bars. Presently Gold has made two inside bars on 7th & 8th Apr.09. As per scenerio Case-1, we are stopped out of short position and now waiting for either high or low of 6th Apr.09 to be taken out for re-entry.

Is my understanding correct?

Regards

Muktha

Last edited on 1239242820|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Muktha + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Saint001Saint001 1239250095|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Bee,

Didn't get the time to go through it……will be doing so in the night today.

Thanks.

Saint

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1239254205|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thank you Saint

Look forward to reading your comments

Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Santhosh44Santhosh44 1240293368|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thanks a lot bee..

A major pivot (High) in Gold-mini charts (14470-14475) about to be broken..
Do we have a separate thread in tradersaint to discuss these trades? If not, why dont you start one..? :)

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240295117|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Santosh,

If you are trading the daily with my strategy then this thread should do fine. I have exited on the crack of Apr 16 hi. Will enter when Apr 13 hi gets cracked on the upside to go long. Otherwise wait and watch. Deploy extra fund elsewhere.
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Santhosh44Santhosh44 1240300937|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Apr 13 hi taken out bee.. So we are long as per daily charts..

placing stop at yesterday's low for now, though too far..

Last edited on 1240301077|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Santhosh44 + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Kaiser123Kaiser123 1240423078|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Hello Bee,

http://tradersaint.com/forum/t-141888/trading-the-daily-chart-in-gold-mini-a-profit-taking-strategy#post-440892

Thanks a lot.
Your post added fuel in some of the thoughts regarding higher TF, which were going thr my mind. I am checking it with regards to NF.
When I come to some concrete idea, will post over here.

But thanks for the wonderful posts and ideas.

Kaiser.

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240467902|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Apr 13 hi taken out bee.. So we are long as per daily charts..

placing stop at yesterday's low for now, though too far..

Sorry Santosh, did not see your post. How careless of me!!! You are right. Keep the stop at Apr 20 low and wait for a higher PL to form. All the best.
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240467955|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thankyou Kaiser for your kind words. Look forward to reading your ideas.
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Santhosh44Santhosh44 1240469065|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Bee, stops for long still at WRB/20th low ?

Or can yesterday's bar be considered as an Inside bar (minor diff between yest low and 21st low). In that case we may need to apply Case 1. That is moving stops to yesterdays low and SAR to 21st low.. But i guess a safer option wud be to keep our stops at WRB low itself.. Your views ?

goldm.jpg

ps: Oops.. Did not see Bee's post above.. plz ignore this post.. So no change in SAR yet..

Last edited on 1240469253|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Santhosh44 + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240470032|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Santosh,

As the strategy heading says it is a profit taking strategy. So we have to give space for a trade to develop and go on its way to the positive side before the strategy is applied. Lets us keep the stop at WRB low and wait for a higher pivot to form. I am also at the learning stage here :-)
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240471453|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Santosh,

Where did you get this daily chart for gold mini? Is it trade tiger of sharekhan? I am not getting this daily chart. Wonder why?
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Santhosh44Santhosh44 1240471831|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Thanks bee.. I too will be active here.. Let us learn together :)

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Santhosh44Santhosh44 1240471878|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

No bee.. I've subscribed to live data feed frm soubhagya..

Don't you have option to get past 5 days data in tradetiger?

If you need I can get you the amibroker database file for goldmini daily data..

Last edited on 1240472055|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Santhosh44 + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240472813|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

No thanks, Santosh, do not bother. I get 5 day intra sometimes even 8 days intra at the end of the week on trade tiger but it does not give me daily bars. In futures and cash segment I get daily bars.

I download the ticklist from trade tiger and convert to metastock format (I do not have amibroker) - cumbersome but has to be done.
Bee

Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
Santhosh44Santhosh44 1240555222|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Holding longs + Add1 (Added above 21st high)

Yesterdays high taken out.. So moving stops to yest low..14374-f .

Last edited on 1240555305|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover By Santhosh44 + Show more
Re: Trading the daily chart in Gold mini - a profit taking strategy
beethovenwithsaintbeethovenwithsaint 1240556465|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z|agohover

Yes Santosh. A higher PL is in place that we were waiting for. Very good. Lets see what happens next.
Bee

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