Trading With The Flow!!!

This forum is only for charts……..please post any chart relating to ambush trades….so that we can have a collection of charts here…and we can all learn from this thread……..

u can all post the questions relating to charts here .. so that we can have all the doubts relating to charts solved here……

hoping for contribution from every 1 here …..

happy ambushing :)

regards
neeraj

17 MARCH….

18 march

1 of the toughest days……..happens…..

i request saint sir to please guide us on this 1……

what i would do is that i would stop after 4 trades……and come back next day……

there shud be a stop for number of trades in a day…because we dun hav to always trade in ambush……days can b really ugly sometimes…..

way of handling things may be diff….

and also backtesting is 1 thing where u cant take realtime decisions….the real test is realtime…….and decision making is quick……

there are many great minds here…. who may have diff ways of handling the same charts…..please put forward ur inputs……and charts…..

thanks

regards
neeraj

24 april..

23 april

22 april

neeraj

as always good work…..

neeraj
typo in 17th march charts
Chart is of 17th march == typo 17 april

Neeraj

Thanks for posting ambush trades. It's good learning.

Regards

Neeraj,
Thanks a lot for posting banknifty ambush trade charts. it will clear my understanding of PH & PL and help me trade better.
looking forward for more charts from you and saint sir.
thanks again
regards

PREM

Neeraj, from the above charts it seems that we are entering at break of every 5 min pivot high. As long as the trend continues we add…. and as soon as it discontinues we SAR. In other words, trend trading.
Is it correct?

If it is correct, then this is in contrast to the way we are Ambushing right now (in part 5) where we look for pattern and trade those patterns (in almost any scrip) as opposed to trading the trend…

Did the members evolve into a different type of Ambush style?

Neeraj,
If possible plz post charts of daily ambush trades for at least a week or two. It will clear concepts of entry, exit and adds. also if u can mark the patterns made on that chart like triangle, flags etc. it will help me understanding those patterns.

also if u can explain following points, it will be very useful
1) when to look yesterdays pivots and patterns (triangle etc.) to take ambush trade today.
2) when to look daily chart, 60min chart for ambush trading
3) how and when to book profit
I know i am asking too much…plz bear me… :)

Hi Neeraj,

I can not see any of the charts? Have they been removed or is there problem at my end?

Thanks & Regards,
Monk

Hello the monk,
charts have not removed. problem may be with ur browser. sometimes charts appear just after refreshing the page

yes we enter a break of 5 min pivot high…as long as trend continues we add ….. sar'ng it is personal prefrence….. depends upon the situation….i just luk at the setup and trade accordingly……..

there r no rules to trade ambush….its more of a learn by trading and experience thing….u luk at chart and by experience all freshens up in ur mind..yes dis is what i need to do here…..it is trend trading of course … we enter on pivot breaks…move stops thru pivots…..and sar at pivots…….

abt any pattern that exists….i know lil….like triangles….flags etc.. to its core they consist of pivots…..they r just of lil help to identify which pivots to enter frm…..like in triangle case…i will lookout to enter the pivot with upper or lower tl……

like in flags i become a lil cautious in entering long in a bear flag……coz there ph's are broken…..

there r no rules…..

only do 3 things….coz dis is what i did to learn ambush…….

1) clear out the basics…….go to SCHOOL section in this website…..u will find everything there…..pivots trends patterns…everything……take your time…study them……giv them some time…learning comes by time…..

2) go through the the posts that r buried under trading methods/ ambush trades……go thru all the ambush threads….open charts in front of u …see what saint sir and other friends of flow family were watching at that time…….

3) catch us live @ ambush threads…where u get to learn live……where saint sir let's us learn and watch thru his eyes what he is watching….thank u tonn sir…..

if ne questions after d 3….please post…we all will b happy to solve ur queries….

there is nothing in ambush except pivots, tl's, vol's, patterns…..we r simpeltons….. :) and we all rock……

will keep posting charts…..

regards

neeraj

punj llyod — ambush…

12-05-09

reliance ambush

12-05-09

kotak ambush

12-05-09

Great stuff,Neeraj……..

Saint

Thanks For posting….nice charts.. :)

MJ-

Great charts Neeraj…. Will help a lot in ambushing

Kapil

Great charts and even better attitude Neeraj. Its going to be of extreme help to all learners.

Just a request……if possible, post charts of all stocks/patterns that were traded on a day. A few days of it will put everyone in sync.

Thanks,

Puneet

thank u all…..puneet will try to do it once in a couple of days….will post imp. ones everyday……

regards

neeraj

wow neraj thanks a lot yaar as puneet said plz post charts end of days so that we can learn
Thanks again

Regards
Satya

Neeraj,

Tks for the write-up.

So you do indeed take the 5 min pivot breaks as entry. Do you take all 5 min pivot breaks? I am sure you dont.. so how to you choose when to start taking them (or which pivot to take)?

(My guess: When we see a consolidation, which could be a triangle, wedge or in general a significant crowding of bars, we want to enter at its breaks…. which is when we start eyeing the 5 min pivots or 10 mins pivots.)

These charts are of great help… couple of eye-opener type charts in a day will be put to good use.

regards,
Amit.

Neeraj,
Great post and great charts….it will really help me in ambushing……thanks a lot….plz keep posting these great charts as and when possible….:)
thanks again

today was a real tough day 4 me…..i have like 12 charts open at 1 time……all were giving trades like up down…basically it was a bigger tf sideways day……….

i took abt 12-13 trades….some BE…some slight loss…….really had a bad psychological effect…..not because of the losses…was nt much…but because of the number of trades…..even got sick….headache…….still dere….2nd reason was that today my A.C. got sick too…lol….

this ambush gives so many oppertunities….if nt in punj den in jp…if nt in jp den in icici or kotak or hdfc or sterlite……..all looks gud to ambush…..now we dun knw what setup will gv gud return…today was 1 day where even if we followed the method….it wud gv many trades in each script…..even gng thru the charts is giving me nightmare……

ambush is 1 method where u can like ambush anything and everything….coz after sum move u always , most of the times get a chance to BE….but the question is what is sl for number of trades…..today trades were many….why take so many trades… ? i got up early today and left for home….gave dis day up as it was sideways…..early say arnd 2 p.m. where already had 3 trend trades…1 up den down den again up…..wat a day it was…..

total no. of trades…and quick calculations…..risk reward….after 2 side trades…3rd bringsss …..aaaah oooh……shit……..nt again…..

so what shud b the stop…of trades…so dat we can cum bak another day….dere is always next day……….really understanding y psychology is the main thing….nd really need to develop it……..

seniors..puneet mj st kapil….saint sir…plz throw sum light on dis…..

:) Hi Neeraj. Why not ambush 2 scrips with a percent each on risk and increase to 3 once you make (say) 10% return on cap. This way you have a profit cushion and some more experience with the method . But you are doing great, ultimately the decision to increase/decrease scrips rests in your hands, I wish I had lightening quick reflexes like you to handle so many scrips so smoothly :)

Regards,
MJ-

Good post Neeraj…you are a Rock Star of ambush….keep it up…

12 trades in a day…..I envy your broker ,that is really high decible trading….but I think if 4-6 trades not going your way properly…mkt is telling you that it is in no mood to trend strongly…but in yesterdays trends there were some good ambush trades and I am sure you must have traded them….

Best Wishes for a better day today….

Smart_trade

Neeraj you are rocking with your trades. But yes, if so many scrips give you headaches, then better to decrease the no of scrips that you track. How many can you track without stressing out is a call that has to be taken by you. Frankly I have never been able to track so many in one day. Besides the profits, its important to take care that we don't get unnecessarily stressed out.

Kapil

Good post Neeraj.

MJ, ST and Kapil have summed up the thing correctly. its upto you now to chart your own course of action. 2 scrips or 4 scrips…..is upto you, just ensure (1) your sanity is always maintained…as is your work-life balance. Risk per trade shd be used to ensure this. (2) ensure you dont burn out after a great start like many budding stars do. Take care number of scrips trades is well within your speed. You are in it for the long haul…so ensure you take steps to protect yourself first…so that you r in a position to attack and achieve your aims.

Puneet

thank u mj st da kapil and pc for ur suggestions…..really appreciate it :)

regards

neeraj

Putting Daily Ambush Charts here……..Sticky-ing this thread.

Would be great if others can put up their charts as well…..nothing beats Eye-ing a charts.

Saint

Monday we had a massive gap up…….nothing much could be done for the day.But EOD,this is what we see,as is demonstrated by chart above.A break of weekly pivot highs.

Today we look to go long DLF……..all else is taken from the 5/10min charts as always.

Saint

BANK NF:Basically here,not looking at daily weekly charts…….here,more both directional.But today took only longs.

Saint

Same logic…..a breakaway gap over weekly pivot highs yesterday.Today another smaller gap over daily resistance areas,means we are looking to get long using intraday charts.

Saint

saint thanx for the charts, really very helpful..

saint i have a query regarding stop in DLF trade..you keep stop at 11.25 bar which is of dozi type..means isn't it be at 11.20 bar low which is bullish bar & had low of that consolidation..means market can very easily take 11.25 bar low & moves up again..

as we taught by you that if BO happen from a consolidation , the low of that consolidation will be stop…& that is done in other ambush trades too

thanx & regards

vineet

thankssss a tonnnnn saint sir for the charts…………

1 pt where MS is really help ful is … if we mark a resistance on weekly or daily .. it remains in the intraday charts as well…..so really helpful……these small things are the ones that r biggerrrr……we r simpletons….these simple things r d most imp for us….

but am using icharts…..so not so helpful dere……..need to remember the resiatances on daily and weekly……….this is where we cry fr a gud software instead…….will switch over soon…….live MS..

regards

neeraj

saint sir,
thank you for charts,
really useful

SO

fold Re:

Ambush charts
myvineet 20 May 2009, 09:15 +05.500
saint thanx for the charts, really very helpful..

saint i have a query regarding stop in DLF trade..you keep stop at 11.25 bar which is of dozi type..means isn't it be at 11.20 bar low which is bullish bar & had low of that consolidation..means market can very easily take 11.25 bar low & moves up again..

as we taught by you that if BO happen from a consolidation , the low of that consolidation will be stop…& that is done in other ambush trades too

thanx & regards

vineet

In DLF trade 11:20 bar (bullish candle) was not the low of consolidation…the consolidation was for 3-4 bars and once mkt takes a breakout,the 11:30 bar low was a low of sideways consolidation…..but as after the breakout,11:25 bar was a PL hence safer to place our stop there….

I dont have the chart of DLF …trying to read the bar and timing from Saint's chart…hope there is no mistake there….if any time reading error,please fergive…

Smart_trade

saint , st , neeraj
plz advice me
in todays dlf trades.
NR

Hi NR,

I am not very qualified to speak on ambush style…still learning it myself…

From the trades my observations are as under :

1) You are taking trades too late
2) You are not grabbing the profits….if after a WRB you see a hammer,grab the profits…for example in yr first trade( short) have you booked profits on hammer ?
3) You are trading ambush trades with 60 min flow style

Sorry for my pointing these which I feel if addressed ,there was no reason for todays trades to result into a loss..

Smart_trade

Thanx a lot DA,

yes i got the point

vineet

exactly same as st da….u r taking trades 2 late…..

1ce u get move in ur direction…atleast move stops to BE….+ learn taking profits here….something is better then nothing….this is ambush…u take whatever u get…

plus when after 2 trades u came to know its sideways….cut it…and try sumthing else…..luk at vol's too low….

1st trade was profit
2nd trade was lil loss or Be….
3rd nice profit…..
3 trades in 1 script…..try sumthing else its sideways…wait fir bigger tf to giv direction…..

• saint sir's view on dis awaited….i am tryin to pik things out of experience..vol's play imp role…it helped me in punj today.

regards

neeraj

In DLF trade 11:20 bar (bullish candle) was not the low of consolidation…the consolidation was for 3-4 bars and once mkt takes a breakout,the 11:30 bar low was a low of sideways consolidation…..but as after the breakout,11:25 bar was a PL hence safer to place our stop there….

I dont have the chart of DLF …trying to read the bar and timing from Saint's chart…hope there is no mistake there….if any time reading error,please fergive…

Smart_trade

Nothing to add to the above,Vineet…Thanks ST!

Saint

NiftyRider,

Hope this helps ……just compare and see what has to be rectified.Also some great advice from Neeraj and ST.

Saint

thnx saint, neeraj and st
still trying to learn things …
good thing is that i have teachers like u all…

saint

in centurytext posted above, we see you have taken only longs, no short, why ?

1. there was no set-up for short?
2. your eod analysis picked this particular stock for longs only?

SO

S.O. strong uptrend…basically was not interested in any short yesterday….

den also there was no gud setup for short in centuary textile…..like vol's or a gud pivot break….on downside….

saint

in centurytext posted above, we see you have taken only longs, no short, why ?

1. there was no set-up for short?
2. your eod analysis picked this particular stock for longs only?

SO

Yep,SO……only trading one direction and yes after an eod analysis.

Saint

Excellent,Neeraj……same points of entry and exit as well.

Saint

Have a look at that bar with high volumes(circled red) after a strong uptrend and a huge gap up……KIV Exhaustion of this move.

A feeble attempt to breakout today and failed (circled blue)………short the breakdown from the first trendline

Saint

Charts of DLF ….Nothing to explain…..all obvious.

Saint

RCOM:Had put it as a Watchlist Short……was looking at taking the breakdown from that trendline.Instead it put in a bit of rally……..not interested anymore.But looking at the charts,it has settled back at that trendline.On Shorts Watchlist for May 22nd.

Saint

Thanks Saint sir and Neeraj. Especially HDIL long is really nice and was not very obvious to my eyes. But looking at the chart I got the clue and your thought process.

Thanks once again… this should help me in a long way.

thanks saint sir

for charts and explanations.

SO

Neeraj,

One request, a small one. Could you pls mention the reason why you have chosen a particular stock to trade. I think half the victory is in chosing the right stock. Thanks.

Looking at Saints charts the reasons for trading a scrip is crystal clear. One understands that he has to browse through the popular stocks the night before and pick best candidates for 5 min PH/PL treatment. For me, simply picking stocks by their hourly trend may not suffice, some more tell-tale pattern must be seen, like in DLF and RCAP above. Just awesome examples. :)

tks and regards.
Amit.

BANK NF 25th and 26th May….

CENT TEX BREAKOUT FAILURE

TATA Steel - LONG looks juicier in cash than in futures.

Hi,
I'll start to post my ambush trades from today itself. Neeraj…. plz correct me if I am wrong…. looking for a great trading day and so much of learning from all you guys…

Sreeny

kotak bank…28 may

Hi Neeraj,
I've attached BNF chart here. Plz check it out and let me know where I have to improve my trading… the chart looks silly but imp to me to learn. I have taken only 2 trades in the above. I am unable to upload the image file, could you help me out on how to upload the file from my laptop?

sreeny upload ur file to http://www.imageshack.us/ after which u get an image link
paste image link here using insert image button or insert image wizard (green buttons on toolbar)

i use tinypic.com

copy the link of picture………..den use the insert image button….and paste in desired location……

Thanks a lot Neeraj and Mansukh

Bank Nifty.. 28th May

don't know where to give Page name or File name either in TS or the url which I used to upload the image….. sorry for troubling again….. plz help me

KOTAK AMBUSH TRADE 28th May

Reason for the entry……high volume bar coming in after forming a higher pivot low and threatening to take out previous pivot highs.Once done,Enter.Add over the high of the WRB and consolidation.

Saint

sir the chart posted by me….that is bull flag rite ? ? ? in kotak….

sir my entry was on rite observation ?? ?? coz ur entry was lil bit diff…..

great going,neeraj…..yep,that's a Bull Flag

Saint

kotak bank june 2

axis bank june 2

punj june 4

Thanks Neeraj……..great stuff.

Saint

16th June 2009

MJ-

Axis bank on 29th June 2009.
Rare day.

Regards,
MJ-

AXIS BANK 10 JULY

neeraj gr8 trades.
please share details abt ur data vendor.
NR

NR am usin icharts……MS is for ieod analysis….. :)

Thanks Tons Neeraj, charts very well put together. Thank you for your efforts.

MJ-

5min Charts for last week of AXISBANK.
6th July - 10th July.

I would request Saint to go through charts and comment on my understanding of things, whether a bad entry could be avoided or earlier entry.
As Im still learning the method, It would really help if you could correct me :)

Currently, on gap days I take the first pivot break, whichever direction on 5mins.
Next trade on 30min putting up topping or bottoming tails, and buy at or above the tail (for longs).
60min breakout breakdown failure.
30min pivot.

Also, if im buying a 5min pivot because of hammer on 30min TF, my stops will be hammer low or 2 pivots away on 5mins, best to give more space to such formations.

This is what I look to put up a trade. YES there are moves which are missed, but It helps me to put a trade confidently as I know higher time-frames are with me. Makes things simpler during the day too. I might get in late sometimes, but alot of bad trades are missed out on.

Blue Line = Reversal/fresh trade
Black = Exit.

Regards,
MJ-

thnx mj ….very educative charts for me…
plz share filters for axisbank (5mnts)

Great Charts,Neeraj/MJ.

Well done and great stuff.

Saint

using Rs 2 for axis NR :)

14th July,
Personally i covered most at 761 as we were making a bullish flag, but still OK trade….

Ideal trade for today,
However made a mistake today, Went long at the marked price then got stopped out below WRB low….stops should have been at Days low as we were buying into a hammer on higher TF's
Re entered at the "add" marked spot and exitted EOD…still okay day overall, Punj was good….

MJ-

Excellent MJ, very clear and educative charts, best thing is that you avoid Overtrading just the way Saint does.

Waiting for more

Excellent MJ, very clear and educative charts, best thing is that you avoid Overtrading just the way Saint does.

Waiting for more

One thing to mull over. Just compare what would have been the outcome had you played 60 min flow vis-a-vis 5min ambush. On clear trending days - 60 min flow catches virtually 100% of the trend and ambush at best probably 50% and that too with many trades and risks associated with each trade.

My personal experience says that 5min play is very inefficient especially as we have the skills to play a better method with 60 min flow.

Now the question arises why play 5 min ambush at all. Probably those scripts which move a lot in a day up and down but do not trend one way much. Any trending stock is a good candidate for 60 min method.

So I think the capital is best utilised in opening more positions in 60 min flow or play with more lots in your favourite scrips.

Open to discussions. Maybe I have an aversion to playing smaller TFs or some may find 60 min flow too tame or devoid of excitement or plainly not suitable to some psychologically. Anyway this is by no means a criticism on ambush. I have played both 5 min TF on NF and same day had 60 min flow in minifty. Majority of the days 60 min flow won hands down. 5 min play even with ideal situations drawn at EOD did not come anywhere near to the results given by 60 min flow. On trending days 60 min was clear winner by a big margin. On sideways days 5 min gave marginally better or sometimes lower results due to some drawdowns. Only on reversal days 60 min sometimes gave a big drawdown compared to 5 min play but next day it would give a big jump wiping previous days losses whereas 5 min would be struggling to keep up with minimum of 3 trades and sometimes even 4 trades in a day.

Happy Trading

Bee

bee wrong in ur understanding of ambush…..its not just 5 min chart reading friend :)

its multiple time frame analysis….5 with 15 and 60…..den comes tl's den comes a branch of it called MONEY MANAGEMENT……..combination of a few concepts of Volumes and chart patterns……..

last 2 months we have had trending days…sideways days ….. no problem….sideways days obviously are not as good as trending 1's..but how many days together do we have sideways days….2, may be 3…..but by using our eye and doing some eod analysis we can easily make out what r the best shots fr next day…..is it sideways markets or not ? and after sideways what do we get :) ??? our piece of FISH…. surviving out of sideways killerss….well if u get some…is only thru MM…..taking trades…worrying abt BE's and small losses……..

even in sideways markets there r picks da gives good trends…..and dose which breakout or breakdown afer good amount of sideways….we can always have 2-3 trends in intraday 5 min….. if stock trends fr an hour…u get to risk small loss…or BE… even on sideways my friend :)

if u r right 70 % of the time u will RISK small losses negotiable….and BE's by trailing SL…30 % u may give full 1.5 % loss…..may be becoz of a wrong trade or mkts whipping….

and when the ambush works…… :) :) ….

this EYEBALL system has a 50 % sucess ratio 4 me…..its all in d mind….and EYE…..its all about choice….and multiple time frame analysis…..and to know when to trade…when not to … when to trade with less vol…when with full….it comes by screen experience….all thanks to saint sir…to hold our hands and post live and make us see what he watches…

1 mre thing…60 and ambush are 2 different methods…dere is no comparison at all…1 is for positional player other is for intraday player……60 min has no concern with 5 min alalysis…..but 5 min has concern with 60…..it helps our eye choose what to trade….

it is the most efficient method…returns are uncomparable…..thou a lil more experience will do wonders :)

1st trade above was with low vol's…reason…60 min flow luked up…..so this could hav been just a retrace after overbought inraday levels….

this 1st trade was not taken by saint sir … in bank nf thou…reason same 60 min flow….this is how we know when not to take a trade…or if willing …take low vol…no harm…worry abt losses..and BE's…..

2nd trade…den came the 2nd 1…which was taken with normal vol…as 60 min flow trend up….2nd…luked like a failed breakdown….3rd….other bankings also showing strength… MAIN…never ever miss a long trade if 60 min flow is UP….choices..on what to trade thru EOD analysis…..

JP 15 JUL.

the above trade….1st 60 min flow up…2nd….resistance on d way nearby….:) the blue line .. which when cleared gives more steam :) which was more likely to b cleared….y ? 60 flow up after a good downtrend .. simple…it was a sitter…with a lil effort of trailing sl … and managing trade….

u will gv loss only when u want to give it….1st trade…taken long over stiff 60 min resistance….pivot…..but a doji formed….could hav exited earlier…but just holded with initial sl..which got hit….still it was on hotlist…as 60 min flow up….+ many stocks trending nicely….rcap always is hot :)

2nd trade took long again..and breakout…but okk…wiped out losses…no problem..made money in d others…..

u jut choose…which 1's can b right trades…its the markets dat will decide it will go up 2 % or 10 %…ur job is to worry abt losses and BE's trailing part….

when lucky…will get shark :D….

Ideal trade for today,
However made a mistake today, Went long at the marked price then got stopped out below WRB low….stops should have been at Days low as we were buying into a hammer on higher TF's
Re entered at the "add" marked spot and exitted EOD…still okay day overall, Punj was good….

MJ-

MJ,
Needs some help to understand this chart. You are trading on a 5 min chart and as per that placing a stop below that WRB seems to be right decision. Why do you say that you should have it at low of the day? Are you looking at 30 min chart for placing a stop for trading 5 min? Didn't sound right to me, obviously i'm not trading ambush yet but trying to get there. Please throw some light.

Neeraj,
Some charts for you. Have taken same scripts you traded today.
Bee

Bee Sir,
I had exactly the same concerns that you listed down. And as it happens, we convince and prove ourselves that what we hold out to be true is really the right thing.

This stopped me from taking up Ambush till very late. Then a small backtest on the jumbled up rules that i had in my mind, and my beliefs were shattered. Ambush not only made more retuns, it made some obscene returns…not stating here else people start considering me mad. But to give an idea, just have a look at what Saint Sir did with his 5lakh in BNF.

60 remains the King, the wealth creator, the morale support, and the justification of us calling overselves as traders……but Ambush is the match winner. What you stated in your post is absolutely right, but just look at the position size each of these trades (60min and Ambush) and then you will begin to see the difference.

Thanks,
Puneet
ps: I am and will always remain the staunch supporter of 60min. But this post is not a 60 Vs 5 thing…but a 60 WITH 5 one.

Puneet,
I know Saint has demonstrated amazing result with BNF with Rs 5 lac initial capital. But Saint is at stratospheric level of trading whereas I am not even two inches above ground. If I take three trades in ambush I invariably make losses in one trade, one would be BE and one would be a pathetic winner. Only on clear trending days I will catch some points but again will either exit prematurely or hold it to exit slightly late. I am not saying not to trade this method. Some have done amazingly well and Neeraj is one of the stars so I took his trades as he is one of the best in this method and even then just see the effect.

I agree on position size but then if you are not careful then in very volatile scripts like BNF the losses can be horrendous.

I have walked this walk so I am talking my walk - just wanted to share my experience that is all.

I believe many are in the same boat as me.

Cheers

Bee

Bee, actually more than profits, position size, number of trades etc, it has got more to do with the trader's psychology. We have to ask ourselves are we comfortable in trading the method or the time frame. We have many here who are trading both the TFs (60 and 5 min) and then there are traders who might not even be comfortable with trading 60 min charts. Then we have some examples where the trader trades all the possible TFs ranging from 5 min to weekly charts like Saint.

Regards,
Kapil

MJ,
Needs some help to understand this chart. You are trading on a 5 min chart and as per that placing a stop below that WRB seems to be right decision. Why do you say that you should have it at low of the day? Are you looking at 30 min chart for placing a stop for trading 5 min? Didn't sound right to me, obviously i'm not trading ambush yet but trying to get there. Please throw some light.

Stops are always at latest PLs or WRB for longs. However I have 1 exception here, If i'm buying and we are setting up a bottoming tail on the 30 or 60 my stops will be the low of that 30min bar, also provided that they aren't very far away, basically scripts need breathing space after we break hammer highs….

Regards,
MJ-

Bee Sir,

I agree with you on most points you stated. Also, no comparison of anyone with Saint Sir at all…..he is miles ahead.

Yes, number of unforced errors are large for a beginner and also, not everyone is suited for it. So we have to take a call for ourselves. You are right in your views, even I keep making such errors in my day trades. But I remember, I had to struggle a lot in 60min also initially…..so maybe the same happening with Ambush also.

And as always, it great to have your mature views in these matters. Always great learning from your experiences.

Thanks a lot,

Puneet

Great Discussion going on…..good stuff here….

Just wanted to add a little perspective, Using charts posted by Neeraj on icicibank and 60min charts of the same posted by Bee….
(Taking all figures from Bee and Neeraj)

Lets Say we are risking Rs5,000 for both methods.
ICICIBank 60min flow's risk was 30pts (inclusive of filter) which means 166 shares.
ICICIBank Ambush risk was 8pts, lets take brokerage slippage etc.. out and bring it to 9pts , 555shares

60min flow made 16pts* 166 = Rs 2656 in one day, without doing anything, just sitting and listening to music….relaxed…
Ambush made 26pts* 555 = Rs 14,430. (without adds)

Not saying one method is better than the other, somehow I still like the 60minflow, maybe some kind of attachment…..
Thanks For your views Bee Sir, was really nice to see put your thoughts over here.

Thanks & Regards,
MJ-

Yes Kapil - you are right - I had said something of this nature in my first post in this series last para - probably not very clear.

Puneet and all others- I am not saying not to trade this method. This method is very difficult to handle for me. Others may find it easy but lot many would be struggling hard even after three months of trading this.

Happy trading

Bee

Yes MJ agreed. I have problems of limited capital also - so advantage to larger position size in ambush is neutralised for me. But that is my problem not with method.
Bee

MM very nicely explained by MJ…… :) i think everything shud b clear in dis post… MM is d key…the holy grail…1 % target of day and 7 % a week can b easily met…….but dis is stock market……it will take efforts……u hav to b best among 99 % other people…….so even dis simple method is not as simple as it sounds…hard work hav to b done…..train d eye DUDEs…. :)

and its all about comfort…..if u comfortable wid intraday play intra…if not den positional…….

Regards

Neeraj

1 more difference………..ambush can b played using a 50 k capital :) :) while dun think of playing 60 min flow w/o atleast 3lacs…..

Ah Bee Sir, Just one small suggestion, Ambush can be traded in the cash market, so you can risk 100rs too just to understand the nature of this method. A person with even 1L capital can trade ambush…

MJ-

Yes MJ - I know that. It is very much clear that ambush can be profitable over 60 min only on the basis of higher position size at entry ( I am at present not taking adds here in the logic as adds are there in 60 min also). But then it requires a very high level of skills to pull it off to be a winner on sustainable & consistent basis. Anyway effort is on.

As a trader my quest has been to earn money on consistent basis. Ambush will require lots of work so we will do it - a challenge has to be met - so be it ;-)

Cheers

Bee

Bee I myself have always thought as smaller time frames to be operators feeding ground, but after trading it for few days I have found that Ambush though CANNOT replace 60 min. but when traded along with 60 it has many advantages to make it worthwhile considering.

1. Unlike 60 min. where we have to try and keep Flowing whether there is Flow or not here we can be flexible in waiting for confirmations from Higher TFs, or Vols. or Trendlines

2. We all have faced Drawdowns in 60 min. which tend be rather too large sometimes ( ask Puneet and me, we were in ABAN and BNF at one of the worst times), here you easily know after 3-4 trades that today is not the day to Trade, but in 60 min. it may be 15- 17 days of a dry spell, frankly very hard to wait for so long to have a winner.

3. In 60 min. you are required to Trade whole year round, if you wish to take a break and decide to miss a trade most of the times you would have missed a big winner which was reqd. to keep us afloat. The idea of taking money everyday into your account through AMBUSH is actually much better suited to our mentality, its very hard sometimes to see Paper profits build up and then evaporate in thin air with 60 min.With Ambush we are much more like any other business, taking wages everyday

4. I bring this point last but this is the most important one. Even with seemingly many Cons with 60 min. method, it still rules the roost, if we are patient it actually pushes the money into our pockets even when we are napping away, so here also AMBUSH plays an important role.

When trading Ambush it takes my mind away from thinking about 60 min. position and invariably that is the best thing that you can do to your 60 min. play. While I am fighting with 5 min. TF, THE 60 MIN. is busy making money, so that is a good example of Symboilism is suppose

Frankly Bee I haven't traded Ambush much till now, but after some initial Bad days I am begining to get the feel and looks like this younger Sister of 60 min. is worth considering ,if we can learn how to Trade it properly then we would have got a good 2nd employee

THNX NEERAJ, MJ, BEE, PUNEET, KAPIL
very useful discussions going on, i got my 80% answers abt ambush and mm from ur discussions.

Neeraj i found some differences in my charts and the 1 u posted here.
Please share ur data provider.
Currently i m trying with pib and amibroker.

Thnx u all……

Welcome Doctor sahib. Things are hotting up in this forum. :-)
I agree with you, Neeraj, MJ, Kapil and Puneet.
Satya please put up that chart upto 6300 - that is my only hope here ;-)
Bee

NR am using icharts :)

but dis is from metastock …… and data downloaded frm SOUMYA 4shared folder….

yup got it neeraj…
real time icharts
and for eod analysis soumya's data.

thnx

……..

………Bee I myself have always thought as smaller time frames to be operators feeding ground, but after trading it for few days I have found that Ambush though CANNOT replace 60 min. but when traded along with 60 it has many advantages to make it worthwhile considering.

1. Unlike 60 min. where we have to try and keep Flowing whether there is Flow or not here we can be flexible in waiting for confirmations from Higher TFs, or Vols. or Trendlines

2. We all have faced Drawdowns in 60 min. which tend be rather too large sometimes ( ask Puneet and me, we were in ABAN and BNF at one of the worst times), here you easily know after 3-4 trades that today is not the day to Trade, but in 60 min. it may be 15- 17 days of a dry spell, frankly very hard to wait for so long to have a winner.

3. In 60 min. you are required to Trade whole year round, if you wish to take a break and decide to miss a trade most of the times you would have missed a big winner which was reqd. to keep us afloat. The idea of taking money everyday into your account through AMBUSH is actually much better suited to our mentality, its very hard sometimes to see Paper profits build up and then evaporate in thin air with 60 min.With Ambush we are much more like any other business, taking wages everyday

4. I bring this point last but this is the most important one. Even with seemingly many Cons with 60 min. method, it still rules the roost, if we are patient it actually pushes the money into our pockets even when we are napping away, so here also AMBUSH plays an important role.

When trading Ambush it takes my mind away from thinking about 60 min. position and invariably that is the best thing that you can do to your 60 min. play. While I am fighting with 5 min. TF, THE 60 MIN. is busy making money, so that is a good example of Symboilism is suppose

Frankly Bee I haven't traded Ambush much till now, but after some initial Bad days I am begining to get the feel and looks like this younger Sister of 60 min. is worth considering ,if we can learn how to Trade it properly then we would have got a good 2nd employee

Hi Prabhjeet Ji Welcome Back Its nice you raised these issues about 60 min

M View :

60 min pivots best explain the market structer and how /why /what of markets always …

Yes in flow method we are always have to be in market but by the right pivot and right direction

Again Yes You said about the break ……. we can find out best time for 60 min flow,, Loooong ago in comodity thread in TJ we were trying out how to predict sideways movement so that can be avoided But if we think other wise when to trade 60 min flow or when there is most probability that 60 min flow will be a winer yes i am not talking about a single trade i want to say a time after some perticular things happen in market then we jump with 60 min pivots and trade for ome time say 2/3 trade and sum shud be profitable i know by discusing with you great minds and experience we can find out …..

Here my Sugestion

After we have a Gap, market goes into wake up state it never sits or goes into sidways ….. So we can trade Look at this Up move started with a Gap was like a sure shot trade after that down trend ….and it was looked like that down trend lo0sing strength … an we have a GAP up yummy

Trade when daily uptrend and we have a downtrend and then we change in dirction of Daily in 60 min

Trade After a pattern like contraction in market like AW10 tryin to do in his thread NR7 set up thread in TJ

I know there will be lot of Ideas So waiting To hear from You , Bee , Puneet , MJ and others who trade 60 min flow and best time for them to trade 60 min flow

Normaly when these happens one can trade 60 min flow with confidence may be with extra lots
Even some time we found we trade wrong pivot when there is a situation arise that we have no pivot and we ned to get out them look for other things but never force a for a pivot where it is not ………..

Just my Views as i still trade 60 min nifty

Regards
Satya

Satya I don't think that there is anyone who has done as much of a hard work as you have done on 60 min ( ofcourse after Saint). Look there is no denying that 60 min. is the King, it rules supreme, but if you start to Trade Ambush also side by side you will actually be able to decrease Drawdowns . Now everyone is aware that after Big Drawdown usually comes a period of very healthy gains in 60 min. but lets keep the mechanical side of it aside for a while, most of us are not able to take that BIG BIG winning trade which comes after such a dry streak which should have wiped our losses, that is what my little experience tells.

Now when we combine Ambush, we are actually able to make some Profits even while 60 is in a Drawdown, so the net effect is when the good period comes we are mentally fresh and able to take all the Trades, that time though Ambush may make smaller gains but 60 min. would be firing. So both these methods are kind of a Hedge for each other.

Now I will let more experienced ones Neeraj, MJ, Puneet, kapil do the talking. It looks really wierd that the one with least experience is talking the most

Thanks prabhjeet ji ………… Yes Ambush and miniflows are great but in my view every method /Set up ha a period of great time and losing time…… and i think as we have been trading 60 min flow long enough we should figure out when it gives great result and how to find it out

Again i think a method should be robust enough so that one can trade it without helping of other methods

Requsting others for their views

Reards
Satya

Satya/Prabh,
Great. Yes dry spells in 60 min in NF and others are a bother and occur frequently. For me like Satya 60 min NF flow is the mainstay in my trading which will always be there and other methods are tried and experimented. I have survived till now.

I had in one my posts indicated how to tide over this problem of sideways movement in NF in 60 min flow. That is to take adds at every opportunity and gun for 25 to 40 points. This will put money in your pocket virtually daily and subsidize losses or drawdowns. 60 min purists will not agree with me but this is one way to survive. In case of breakout you will anyway know when to keep on adding to ride the flow; even if you miss out one add by taking profits at 40 points prematurely, the original lots will keep getting you money and you can get on board at the next add opportunity.

Some ideas to survive with skill set that I have.

Bee