Trading With The Flow!!!

Continuing the discussion here ….

Link for previous thread

gone long above 11am + f, gosh now i can understand why Saint and ST da dont post often. Trading multiple systems is very engrossing. i m trading 2 systems in real and one on paper but find it difficult to post in between…..
Waiting for a post from Saint sir……he has not posted here for long long time…….

Long now.. with SAR at 1200 bar low..

Thanks

amrut

hi…now where will SAR be, do we use 2 bar method?

Not using 2 bar as of now…..maintaining stops at ydays low.

good morning all

Reagdrs
satya

Hi everyone,

Where do we place the stop for adds today? I haven't done it as yet because the opening bar was a red one.

Makhijani

RKM,
Add was above opening bar high. Only SAR dependent on opening bar colour…not the adds.

I am moving stops to todays low….bec of consolidation. Bit aggressive…but I will take it. Use your own discretion.

Puneet

Stops moved to today's low as already it is a pivot low. Puneet will it be aggressive ? I think its as per the method only since new high was hit and a pivot low formed today so SAR moved there ?

Now its fine…time I posted, it would have been coonsidered aggressive by many.

Todays low now.

Puneet

1pm bar now, and an add

Puneet, what do you say about Milind's post? That means Milind must be very close to getting stopped.

Makhijani

1300Hrs Low SAr for me … slightly higher filter .. just rounding it off to zeros.

Yes Sar at 1pm low. Though this 3pm bar may make us shift it if longs survive today.

Puneet

hai friends many people here are too aggresive.this is a slow flow for max advantage .

Little bit consevative aproach will go with days low

Regards
Satya

I do not see it as an aggressive , 1300 Hrs bar is a very valid and explicit pivot.

In btw - guys how about Bank nifty Short trigerred ??

Hello Srini,

Nice chart, and I like the correlation with RSI lows. Will have to do some backtesting though. Since how many days have you been long? We have been getting whipped (whipsawed) almost daily recently.

By the way, where do get that kind of chart? And what is the green line on the chart?

Makhijani

Komal, BNF short triggered for me…but EOD reversal might come into play now….

If tomorrow a Gap down then it will be interesting ……..

Regards
Satya

Komal, I would have gone with 11am bar minus filter on BankNF, and filter for BankNF is large enough. Its still long for me, although I am not trading BankNF on 60

Don't say that Satya. Already my day has been bad. At least let me spend weekend in peace :-(

Yes Satya……

So far,holding longs NF and BANK NF

yes..thank you Saint sir….taking home longs in RIL, BNF, Nifty and LT….good luck to everyone…

Don't sa

y that Satya. Already my day has been bad. At least let me spend weekend in peace :-(

hi milind check this pattern this is happening on nifty for some time nice to trade Gap against the trend

Regards
Satya

RishiG
Both Nifty and Bank Nifty short didnt trigger for me .. BN was saved just by 1 point … anyways it would have EOD reversal.

Overall was a bad day .. Ambushed BN thrice .. each time it was at almost 40points profit but real gains were -ve … there is a saying na Haath to aaya muh na laga … heheheeeeee .

Everybody have a great weekend.

PS — Saint sir are you still trading Educomp .. it is back to short na again today at 3056-f.

Thanks
KomaL

Yes Komal…..one of those days where you see profits and end up in minor losses.Well,happens….Yes Komal,Educomp is a Short

saint…
its been always gr8 learning from you.knowledge and decency..gr8 combo.
if you could pls post 60 mins flow of nifty from 11 may till date ,
it would be great.
kind regards,
moody

RKM the chart is from sharekhan trade tiger.the line u asked is 21 day moving average(can be simple or exponential)
Rsi value is 1,3

Komal, I wasnt in Nifty but BNF short triggered for me at exactly 7241, i guess i read my chart wrong and should have placed my stop at 7240 instead….lesson learn will be more careful next time…but in the end, just a loss of few points as i reverted back to longs again..lets see, just hoping we would get a big upmove on BNF after so many stagnant days….

Good Morning All… I know this is conservative but seems we have consolidation going on so putting Sar there …… but take your call as per your understanding

Regards
Satya

Hi Satya,

Thanks for your chart. It would help if the levels were also available.

Makhijani

Shorted below friday's low…..

Thanks for your chart. It would help if the levels were also available.

Makhijani

Hi friend i hope u have understood the method till now ………… why needed level key point is identifying the pivot
Again mine was 4561-15 = 4546 made it to 4545 nothing else

Regards
Satya

hai friends many people here are too aggresive.this is a slow flow for max advantage .

hi srini RSI dont identifies pivot which are made due to sideways consolidation ………. but in this method we some time take horizontal pivot into consideration even if RSI dont agree but as you must thave seen the past data with RSI its upto you which pivot to take

Regards
Satya

yes satya ur right ,though rsi is not supporting we will take that low as pivot on 1 jun .

Thanks, Satya, for your response. Fairly new to this method, still learning.

Makhijani

Nebody with me or i m alone in short !!!!

Nebody with me or i m alone in short !!!!

hi tushar,

I am there with you..

short now at friday's low…

Yes the flow is short…Great going Tushar!

MJ-

How can you be alone, Tushar - so many people are with you….me too.

Makhijani

Add coming up below todays low….

Puneet

hi all inviting GAP ideas in the thread anything on pivot ………. hope will get some nice ideas there

Regards
Satya

Where is our SAR now ? Today's high or yesterday's ? I am putting today's high…please confirm.

Tushar,

12.00 bar high+f.

While in short position, lower open followed by strong bullish opening 5m bar. Reminds me of some past instances where we had brought our SAR closer to opening bar high plus big filter. But this time - its not exactly a gaping gap down, actually not a gap at all, and we are just a day into short flow although over 200 points from start of the drop. Anyhow, stops remain at yesterday hod. Experts please comment if you think otherwise.

Stops not at HOD, but at 1pm bar. Would look to brong them down soon. Add coming up.

Puneet

Thank you Puneet, yes, 1pm is what I had in mind though I incorrectly said hod above

My View

Regards
Satya

Add triggerred below opening bar low-f.

Makhijani

SAR at yesterday 1PM bar…..

What a V move from yesterday….dunno if there is something as wild scrip as NF. Kudos to the trading greats here who mastered trading this beast…….and then helped out kids like me to understand this and become confident……thanks all…..

Todays opening candle was clearly below last few days range, but seems everyone has considering it as aggresive and going along with satya.

Its natural to feel the pain and a wee bit frustration when we get a steep reversal like this with the SARs far off. But if/when trading minflow and maybe also the ambush along with the 60 mins, it becomes a different game altogether.

As a stand along system the 60 Min flow is a very profitable method, but all 3 together the flow methods pack a v potent punch :)

Once you know the rules using small initial position size and proper adds is the key here, and once the SARs are taken automatically with confidance and without any need for confirmation from other, time to add miniflow or ambush to the tool kit.

May the Flow be with us :))

This morning the market opened with a gap in our favour, so the focus was on the adds instead of reversal. According to the rules, "the stops are then moved as per the 2 bar method or pivots….whichever gives a closer stop". Our SAR was far away and is very likely to be hit.

We also have a rule for Gaps against our trade, which focuses only on reversal.

Why don't we have a provision to reverse in time if a favourable gap opening turns against us, the way it has happened today? Experts, please comment.

Makhijani

So we are still carrying shorts as NF did not clear SL+filter.

vin

Yes holding shorts….

Why are we short still ? Did we not reverse above 3:30 H ( of 8-6-09) on 2 bars rule….? We had a down move with a few large bars,a gap open today in direction of our overnight short position….and a V shape reversal….ideal case for reversing on 2 bars reversal.

Smart_trade

Why are we short still ? Did we not reverse above 3:30 H ( of 8-6-09) on 2 bars rule….? We had a down move with a few large bars,a gap open today in direction of our overnight short position….and a V shape reversal….ideal case for reversing on 2 bars reversal.

Smart_trade

Yes ST. Agree with you. 2 bar rule should have been applied.
Bee

Terrible mistake :( I didnt saw the gap thing today, straight away looked at the charts at 10 and it was a green bar…….i shud have taken the reversal even then at least after second bar…………missing senior's post think this dependency have made me complacent…….. :( hope to be more active next time.

Sorry, overlooked this thread yesterday,so didnt post my views.

After an Add triggers, as it did yesterday…why were the stops not moved? Some would still maintain stops at 4563+f as part of their strategy….but then….to become more confident do go through the rules, backtest the system thoroughly, and then trade it.

Puneet

NF short, now SAR moved to 4654+large filter.

vin

Hi All yesterdays Gap no way looked to me a exshustion GAP yes 2 bar rule can be applied but i was waiting for pivot to form as i m not comfertable of 2 bar rule …………. so exited at entry survival of acount first now a days ……………….

These are not 60 min rule so did not posted yes back test what ever you want to follow as puneet said

Regards
Satya

hello seniors and puneet sir,

sir i want to ask a question of 2 bar rule as the rule is bar rule states that we move our stops to the High of the bar which is placed 2 bars before the current bar in case we are Short. In case of Longs, it denotes moving stops to the Low of the bar which is placed 2 bars before the current bar.but it must be a silly question for seniors,if the current bar is green and 2 bars before is red should we consider that red bar as 2 bar before or we should see the colour of bar.seniors please don't laugh on this question.

Gitesh,

Colour of bar does not matter.

Bee

PS: No one will laugh at your questions here. Do not worry. Also fear of ridicule should not stop you from clearing your doubts - a very small price for immense gains in knowledge.

Satya,

60 min flow has its tough moments. My suggestion would be to trade it with lesser amount of capital. As 60 min flow traders have lots of time in their hands (it is a gear 1 trading), you can try ambush method or as you are very familiar with pivots try simple pivot trading on 5 minutes chart. Try with minifty. It is not difficult. It will put some money in your pocket daily on regular basis. 60 min flow will remain in the brackdrop - 5 min trading will be day trading with all positions closing at EOD.

Best of luck

Bee

Thanks Bee…..

Reversed to long during the formation of first bar keeping SAR at today's low…..please update on SAR….

cheers
tushar

Tushar,

You will hardly ever find me posting SAR. Yes, I may sometimes post my difference of opinion on choice of SAR posted by others but that is going into finer details.

You have now been trading this method for a couple of months now. Time enough to independently put SARs.

Please see where the SAR will be and post here. If it is correct or nearabout correct, I will not post anything on the subject. But if it is very much off then I will try to give my opinion of the SAR.

Happy trading

Bee

60 min f

low has its tough moments. My suggestion would be to trade it with lesser amount of capital. As 60 min flow traders have lots of time in their hands (it is a gear 1 trading), you can try ambush method or as you are very familiar with pivots try simple pivot trading on 5 minutes chart. Try with minifty. It is not difficult. It will put some money in your pocket daily on regular basis. 60 min flow will remain in the brackdrop - 5 min trading will be day trading with all positions closing at EOD.

Best of luck

Bee

Thanks Bee will surely looked into …….. now days nifty giving lot of chalange to read more think more ……now a days thinking if we can have some strategies which are time proof not depend on trend or non trend days i m not looking into a specific pattern but a specific time period like some thing happens and then we can trade 2/3 trade and sum of these trade shud be +ve and we look for another oppertunity ……..so requesting you give some ideas if not in this thread may be anything on pivot thread ….. or a pm which will be great help to me …………now a days working on Gaps if we can have a trading plan alone based on Gaps etc ……… even trading those gaps also

Regards
Satya

waiting your valuable inputs …………………

If current bar takes out previous bar low, its BOF ? and we short below the BO low -f? Thanks Bee, I kept the SAR at day's low….but will short if this bar takes out previous bar's low-f

hi tushar u said u have put u r SAR todays low can you plz say why you put there ? is it due to
Gap ? or Pivot ? or 2 Bar rule ?

Regards
Satya

WRB…

…

WRB…

Nice thanks ……… thing is do u follow it everytime then ok and you must have seen prev data

Regards
Satya

thanks for the kind inputs

Satya,

One thing which I have done (not as per original 60 min rule - hope Saint will be forgive me for this) is to take profits at every 25 or 40 points for only adds at regular intervals. 60 min bars normally will move in threes and then pullback (not hitting the SAR but simple pullback). Keep adding to the original quantity but liquidate add only at every 25 or 40 points religiously. At 25 points see if the momentum is high to take it to 40 points or not, if yes, then wait and liquidate adds only and take profit at 40 points. The original quantity will keep on following the course of 60 min flow. This even helps in sideways market and helps to fund some of the drawdowns. Many months this only has given me profits. You can try this. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT AS PER ORIGINAL RULES.

Bee

Tushar, my SAR would be at the pause level of 2 pm bar low of yesterday. As the rise is steep the pullback may also be equally steep so in order for a higher PL to form I have kept SAR at a safe level.

Bee

….

…Tushar, my SAR would be at the pause level of 2 pm bar low of yesterday. As the rise is steep the pullback may also be equally steep so in order for a higher PL to form I have kept SAR at a safe level.

Bee

Yes that is also logical level for me ………….

Regards
Satya

fold Re: Nifty Futures 60 min Flow Part - VII
beethovenwithsaint 10 Jun 2009, 12:13 +05.500
Satya,

One thing which I have done (not as per original 60 min rule - hope Saint will be forgive me for this) is to take profits at every 25 or 40 points for only adds at regular intervals. 60 min bars normally will move in threes and then pullback (not hitting the SAR but simple pullback). Keep adding to the original quantity but liquidate add only at every 25 or 40 points religiously. At 25 points see if the momentum is high to take it to 40 points or not, if yes, then wait and liquidate adds only and take profit at 40 points. The original quantity will keep on following the course of 60 min flow. This even helps in sideways market and helps to fund some of the drawdowns. Many months this only has given me profits. You can try this. PLEASE NOTE THIS IS NOT AS PER ORIGINAL RULES.

Bee

Nice thanks ….

Regards
Satya

Hello Bee

I too try to trade these pull backs on 60 Mins flow. But not for just 25/40 points.

Besides these pull backs I also take the BOs (add points) with similar strat to lighten up by EoD

But I suspect, all these and better ways to do that will be coming our way when the Boss introduces us to Ambusing the 60 Min Flow

Thanks

……..

….Hello Bee

I too try to trade these pull backs on 60 Mins flow. But not for just 25/40 points.

Besides these pull backs I also take the BOs (add points) with similar strat to lighten up by EoD

But I suspect, all these and better ways to do that will be coming our way when the Boss introduces us to Ambusing the 60 Min Flow

Thanks

Yes me too waiting eagerly a thread on this have seen we can trade gaps , pullback towards 20 ema or trend line then resuming trend etc
hope we will have this gift soon

Regards
Satya

iNow (are you Rajesh Niftychance of TJ?),

No, I am not trading pullbacks. In the normal run up, as soon as an add in made - in same run - aim for 25 points or 40 points — sometimes if the momentum is high you will get many more points till a pause in reached - but that requires a bit of reading the candlestick action - a finer art to be mastered later and not in this method.

I do not trade pullbacks as that is going against the main 60 flow trend — a strict no no for me.

Happy Trading

Bee

I will keep my SAR at WRB low - big f…today was a gap + WRB, looks a good enough SAR to me…..thanks Bee, Satya….missed you guys……

Satya,

You can bring the SAR at 11 am bar low (5 hours is enough for a consolidation pivot formation). If SAR is hit then enter with orginal + add quantity - exit add at 40 points profit. Then continue with original quantity for the next add opportunity.

Others please note this is not as per original rules.

Bee

Thanks ……..wil wait for tomorows action to decide the SAR

Regards
Satya

All is quiet here today. I've placed my SAR below yesterday's opening bar to be on the safe side.

Makhijani

Same here RKM, if a new high is touched today i will move my SAR to today's low

The Pivot

Regards
Satya

I had Shorted at 4624-f. Now will be doing the EOD reversal.

Puneet

Puneet was this short as per 60 min flow, an aggressive one I guess or we faltered in not doing it ? Now, my SAR is still at yesterday's low, should I shift it to today's low or I am correct ? Seniors…

Tushar,
Do things as you see them. Go through charts posted by others to know what and how they see things. Everything basically boils down here to the placement of SAR….nothing else. Few points here and there dont matter much…though the aim is to improve further.

Puneet

Respected seniors puneet sir,metushar,satyan,bee,
Hello to all of u,sir's please let me know 1:1 RR for booking profits,Puneet sir please also post 1:1 RR with the charts in the mini flow also.I am a great follower of you guys,god bless.
Thanks
gitesh.

Gitesh,

We dont book profits on 1:1 R/R in 60 min flow…it is done in miniflow method…..

Smart_trade

I had Shorted at 4624-f. Now will be doing the EOD reversal.

Puneet

Puneet

My view

3 different view points:

1. Puneet is long because he took the EOD reversal
2. Satya is long because because he only plays major visual pivots (also I think he does not go for EOD reversal concept, am I right, Satya?)
3. I am short as per my view in the chart posted before this post

Interesting:-)

Bee

Bee,
What I feel is that we do EOD Rev around the pivots that get us into a trade…and not the ones forming subsequently. However, if that is not the case, kindly guide me to the relevant text.

Even if I go with the pivots formed subsequently….my view is that the market shd close < the latest pivot….which in this case was looking for a close of less than 4592. So even if we take that…we shd have been long.

Pl do get back after the markets. And yes, Satya ji does not use EOD rev.

Puneet

Yes Bee dont take EOD reversal but i do take pivots carefuly …………….

Puneet ji yeh "Satya "ji" kahan se aya gaya ??

Regards
Satya

Puneet,

There was some discussion on this issue in Reliance 60 min flow thread. The relevant posts are at April 24 by Saint and next post is RIL's chart by me. Am not able to post the direct links to the posts (have to figure out how to do that).

Trade well

Bee

Bee,

If we had traded for some time below that newly formed pivot…then yes, no EOD. But in this case…I think it was ok to reverse.

Will talk more after mkts.

Thanks Puneet, Bee, Satya, ST da…..learning goes on..

Bee, is there any modification in EOD reversal rule ? I am not aware, is it there on this forum ??

Gitesh I am not senior, i am sub-junior…..
All the above names are seniors
please go through the rules in this forum carefully and the modifications…demystifying the flow thread is amazing one by the Saint sir, please go through tht as well…it will help a lot. All the best.

Regards,
Tushar

Puneet,

My idea is to just point out that we had a similar situation earlier and I learned something that day. 60 minute flow is like a Japanese garden - always evolving - never ending process - but we become better at it as time passes by - the Japanese garden does not follow a fixed plan but evolves as the gardener puts in more effort and ideas ;-)

Bee

Tushar

Pl go thru the posts I have indicated in my post to Puneet.

Bee

Hello everyone,

Staying on the sidelines and absorbing all the discussion….I am still long, had placed my SAR below Wednesday's low yesterday. Hope to stay long today as well, though that depends on what the market tells us to do. but it is interesting that so many experts- Puneet, Bee, Satya, SmartTrade have quite divergent views!

I am quite raw and still confused about the right course of action and also shaken up by the multiple whipsaws we have had recently. Learned some useful things from the posts of Bee and iNow on Wednesday….will try to follow their advice.

Makhijani

Experts, please comment….would yesterday's 3pm high qualify as an add point for longs?

Makhijani

SAR at today's low…….RKM i dont have adds…but i do think it will trigger above yesterday's high + f

Hi RKM will wait this bar to complete before revising my SAR ……….

Regards
Satya

Satya dont we shift SAR as soon as new high is breached without waiting for it to complete ??? I guess it is as per the rules…r u following a little different approach on this ?

Hello ev

eryone,

………Staying on the sidelines and absorbing all the discussion….I am still long, had placed my SAR below Wednesday's low yesterday. Hope to stay long today as well, though that depends on what the market tells us to do. but it is interesting that so many experts- Puneet, Bee, Satya, SmartTrade have quite divergent views!

I am quite raw and still confused about the right course of action and also shaken up by the multiple whipsaws we have had recently. Learned some useful things from the posts of Bee and iNow on Wednesday….will try to follow their advice.

Makhijani

Hi RKM nobody expert etc here i am also learning as you are so you views on pivots are also welcome

Regards
Satya

……..

…..Satya dont we shift SAR as soon as new high is breached without waiting for it to complete ??? I guess it is as per the rules…r u following a little different approach on this ?

Yes bit personal choice……….

Regards
Satya

Still long - had placed the SAR below yesterday's low. Any advice in this regard?

Makhijani

Short RKM….You didnt consider the BO failure below 12pm bar…..or a pivot low below 11am bar??

Puneet

Hi makhijani,
NF is now short

We were long at todays opening bar as EOD r eversal triggered yesterday, then hammer second bar, third bar goes all the way up crossing 4700, we have a new high. Move stops to 4640-F . Should be short now.

MJ-

why are ppl long? if one didnt consider todays 11am bar low as a pivot, then yesterday's 3:30pm bar low was a very valid Pivot low…so everyone should have been short either way..

so clearly the trade is in short and possible EOD reversal above 4640….

Short now, though quite late in the day.

Makhijani

RKM…what a wrong time to go short….all i can say is good luck and keep an eye on EOD reversal…

Yes, thanks, Rishi

Makhijani

yes shorted the breafout failure, though also moved SAR at today's low in the beginning when new high achieved…..

Nice looks like break out failuer concept is good one ……….. will have to check ..

Regards
Satya

Our SAR is at day's high as of now???….hopefully no EOD reversal now….

Add point appraoaching.

Makhijani

Current SAR at today's high…..

Good Morning all hope every one enjoying the ride

Regards
Satya

Is everything fine over with my 60min flow friends…….any doubts that need clarification?

Saint

Yes Dear Saint Everything fine …………. thnaks

Regards
Satya

Is everything fine over with my 60min flow friends…….any doubts that need clarification?

Saint

Very happy to see Saint's post.

Dear Saint everything fine in 60 min flow… Continuously on the learning process. Will surely post queries if any..

Thanks
amrut

Things progressing well dear Saint…..looks good when you post…… :)

Ah…great to hear that,everyone.Well done and great going.

Saint

SAR at yday's high or above the 3pm high (2 bar rule)?

Makhijani

I have gone long at todays 1pm bar+f.

Reason….gap in favour…stops by 2 bar method…or if u get a lower pivot high.

Puneet

Great, Puneet….but did you get a newer PL before you shifted your SAR to today's 1pm bar?? I am still short and waiting for some direction….or should I say clarity.

I hope you are not in for an EOD reversal.

Makhijani

Getting a new PL…only when we r looking for LH/LL. In a gap down, a visual one, no need to look for further lows. The moment u get a pivot high..reverse.

Also note..we dont need higher/lower pivots in a sideways move. So newer PL/PH no pre condition for moving stops.

Hope it clarifies.

What about EOD reversal now, Puneet?

Makhijani

below 4525

EOD reversal triggered…

pchadha74 16 Jun 2009, 15:15 +05.500

Getting a new PL…only when we r looking for LH/LL. In a gap down, a visual one, no need to look for further lows. The moment u get a pivot high..reverse.

Also note..we dont need higher/lower pivots in a sideways move. So newer PL/PH no pre condition for moving stops.

Hope it clarifies.

Puneet I didnt get the sideways move part, I cannot see sideways move today or yesterday…please explain.

EOD reversal, even after taking into account a bigger filter i had to go long….dont thing this bigger filter is giving many advantages….will do backtest again….(only trade happened in last bar long(above 1 PM pivot) and then EOD reversal :( )

Friends - something to mull over. Last two days, we had gaps in our favour. As I have been working on taking some profits on NF (which is notorious for not trending long enough to give profits on adds) - using gap rules to take profits off adds.

If the gap is in our favour - visual one - then just exit adds at 5 min bar hi plus gap filter. Carry the original lots as per rules of 60 minutes. Then if an add opportunity arises like it did yesterday then again add. Today we had gap again in our favour, exit adds at 5 min bar hi plus gap filter.

This is for NF only. Problem with NF is that if we start with one lot and gain 40 points and then add another lot at an appropriate add opportunity, it only takes a drawback of 20 points to loose all the gains. Problem becomes more acute when we add another lot then it will require only 13 points draw back to loose all the gains. As we normally reverse on a pivot which means we have to travel back - this results in a drawdown most of the times. Unless NF trends over 250 points, it is very difficult to make money.

Some thoughts to mull over.

Cheers

Bee

Puneet I didnt get the sideways move part, I cannot see sideways move today or yesterday…please explain.
EOD reversal, even after taking into account a bigger filter i had to go long….dont thing this bigger filter is giving many advantages….will do backtest again….(only trade happened in last bar long(above 1 PM pivot) and then EOD reversal :( )

Tushar, I gave the sideways move, just as a case in exception where we dont wait for newer highs/lows for moving stops. It wasnt relevant otherwise in trade yday or day before.
Normal filter we use in Nifty is sufficient I guess…though you can backtest once again.

Puneet

Bee Sir,

Actually the main problem is…we are betting on VVS Laxman to make tons in a T20 match. Nifty is not ideally suited for 60min flow, which is meant for stocks that trend. But we keep trading Nifty because most are comfortable with it and cant afford to take stops in something like Aban or Tisco etc.

Leaving that aside…the ideas that you put forward are ok for Nifty actually. In any other stock, it will boomerang very nastily. But I think everyone has to make his own little tweak for Nifty and be comfortable using it.

Puneet

Yes Puneet,

My post and chart and figures and logic and opinion is only for nifty futures. Stock futures like Aban are ideally suited for 60 min flow, my post is not meant for that. We have tried to tame NF and bring it to heel within 60 min flow but somehow it has eluded us. This periodic profit taking has saved me from drawdowns and even when nifty is not trending I manage to be in the positive at the end of the month.

Thought I will share my views with my friends here who trade NF and a vast majority of them do, as stock futures are very expensive now.

Happy trading

Bee

Good morning All thanks Bee nice idea ……

Regards
Satya

Nice Idea Bee Sir….I neways keep booking profits in between……a personal tweak but always in the flow……have not reached the adds staged though….

thanks
tushar

Hello Bee,

Very interesting and helpful post today. I read your discussions last week too on this. You are quite right about the tendency to lose frequently on NF because of the wild fluctuations and my account is smarting quite badly ever since I joined a month ago. It seems many traders are tweaking the system so that they can face the drawdowns.

One question - when you say you exit adds at 5 min bar high plus filter, do you mean previous adds? The same day's adds (Short positions) will only give you a small loss.

Thanks for your posts. I had placed my SAR on Monday's high yesterday, and so was saved the EOD reversal.

Makhijani

SAR at yesterday's high…nebody with me ?

Yes Tushar, as of now maintain it there.

Puneet

RKM/Tushar/Satya

This post again pertains to nifty futures only please. 60 min flow remains the safest way to trade for newbies. In this do not miss any opportunity to add. After adding gun for 25 points - then see if the price is trending in the direction of trade - then next stop 40 points after that see if its is again trending - after 40 points we are in good trending territory just ride the trend as best as possible. For new comers this will be difficult so you can for the time being just take 25 or 40 points profits on adds only. This will save your account and you will live to trade another day.

People like Satya will know the strength of the trend to a better extent and can judge/gun for more points.

This will come from experience. Have patience. I have said this so that people trading nifty survive longer ;-)

Bee

Thanks, Bee, for the valuable advice. Hope to get more such inputs from you from time to time…. so that one day we can proudly say we know how to be successful trading.

Bee, my question about the adds - I had asked that when you speak of exiting the adds over the 5 min bar high on gap down days, I presume you mean you exit the adds of the previous day added to short positions. And obviously vice versa for long positions. Am I right?

Makhijani

Bee, my question about the adds - I had asked that when you speak of exiting the adds over the 5 min bar high on gap down days, I presume you mean you exit the adds of the previous day added to short positions. And obviously vice versa for long positions. Am I right?

Makhijani

Yes you are right:-)
Bee

SAR moved to today's high…..low breached…

New Pivot High !!!!!!!!

Regards
Satya

There were two add opportunities just now. Depending on reflexes and MM, hope some would have taken those. Take some profits home and enjoy:-)
Bee

Bee, good eye opener. Actually, I decided to book some my positions of yesterday instead….will be out for the next two days… hope the flow will not give me any rude shocks on Monday.

Just for my clarification, Bee - the add opportunities were below the pivot/11 am bar low and the breakdown WRB low - is that right?

Makhijani

Bee, good eye opener. Actually, I decided to book some my positions of yesterday instead….will be out for the next two days… hope the flow will not give me any rude shocks on Monday.

Just for my clarification, Bee - the add opportunities were below the pivot/11 am bar low and the breakdown WRB low - is that right?

Makhijani

One should not be afraid of keeping overnight positions here - Mondays etc. This is designed to take advantage of gaps which most of the times will be in our direction of trade.

Regarding adds. 11 am bar low of today and 5 min bar low which is the actual PL of yesterday are two good add points.

Bee

Thanks, Bee. As I said, I will be out for the next two days, so decided to lighten up a bit.

Makhijani

Shifting SAR at 3 PM bar high…..

Hope Every one enjoying

regards
Satya

……..

………..Shifting SAR at 3 PM bar high…..

Why ??

Regards
Satya

2 PM bar is a WRB (80 points) then this small bar of 50 point range, then another WRB now…..I shifted the SAR early should have waited for 3.30 bar to complete……but looking at the speed of market….i just shifted SAR

Also, i was going through the past charts, and realized 4400 is a very important level in 60 min charts…..though we dont follow any levels in this method but shifted SAR as this level was comprehensively broken by 40-45 points with huge columes……so had a reason to shift SAR above this bar whose high was 40 points away.

Please comment Satya, i know it was not as per flow but the hope i am reading the charts correctly.

Nice tushar …………..

Regards
Satya

No tushar actualy i dont use WRB for my stop so asked after you said now clear

Regards
Satya

SAR at yesterday 3.30 bar high…..plz update

Now this long legged green hammer……SAR above its high? it is pivot high + new low touched….Shall we reverse above this + big f ?

my view in flow dont use candlestic patterns …….. again this to looking like sideways …..

Regrds
Satya

Satya,
Ageee with you on candlestick patterns. Though I had also kept the SAR at 11am high. Reason….possible BD failure and sideways.

Puneet

11 am bar is a PH and PL. So SAR at its hi + filter. Lets see how it pans out.
Bee

Thanks puneet but my view little bit diferent break down fail comes when we break a important pivot low but i think we did not have a important pivot low in chart tried to explain my view plz coment

Regards
Satya

……..

….11 am bar is a PH and PL. So SAR at its hi + filter. Lets see how it pans out.
Bee

Hi Bee agree with PL but to become pivot high we need more bar /time its just a consolidation by the way eyeing on 12 pm bar as pivot if we breach low by current bar

Just my view may be wrong

Regards
Satya

You are right Satya. But now PH is confirmed, I think:-)
Bee

Yes Bee we have pivot high now but if i say i will wait for this bar to complete i know you will kill me for my slow process but the reason i want to wait to complete this bar to avoid a scenarion like…. this bar recovers and hits the Pivot high made by 12 pm bar though rare but some time it happens and lead to whisaws ……… just my view

Regards
Satya

LOL, Satya. You are a purist in 60 min flow and an excellent flow trader. Please keep trading as per your convictions and reading.
Great!!!
Bee

New Lows ……… every one must be enjoying now …… Punnet if you are around plz give the link of your post where you have said some thing on Gaps may be on TJ need your help on Gaps …. or plz give me some ebooks/links where i cud find some Gap ideas ……

Regards
Satya

After such a steep fall of yesterday, the 11 am bar hi came as a welcome relief because the SAR before that was very far away. Such steep fall also means an equally sharp recovery. The hammer was big indicator to that. I agree that in 60 min candle do not play a part but here I agree with Puneet to bring the SAR down to 11 am bar hi. Frailties of human mind. :-( Only Satya has nerves to play as per pure 60 min rules.
Bee

Hi Bee no we should only concentrate on Pivots but if pshycology dont permits at least sqr off as SAR ans SL two very important differnt things just my view ……….

Regards
Satya

thanks Bee, Satya, Puneet.

Satya, I do think you have killed the 'I' and have dumped it somewhere in the botttoms of the sea…..i hope to reach such a level in 2-3 years….
Please keep your comments flowing….
My knowledge about gaps is very little, will try and study this on the weekend and then will try and reply to ur message….

Current SAR at high of WRB + f…in case the subsequent bar closes above 50 % of this WRB (50% of (open-close)) then, should we go long above this bullish bar ?

Thanks,
Tushar

Will be waiting your messege about GAPs tushar ….

Regards
Satya

Thanks Satya,

Will surely send the link today evening….

Tushar,
NO 50% business in a down move. Do this only in an upmove…..hope u are also clear whether that has to be used on a continuation move or a break out move. Dont wonder why I didnt give the answer here (reg conti or Bo move)….aim is you reach the relevant text and go through it

Puneet

Puneet ji will be waiting your mail

Regards
Satya

NO 50% business in a down move. Do this only in an upmove…..hope u are also clear whether that has to be used on a continuation move or a break out move. Dont wonder why I didnt give the answer here (reg conti or Bo move)….aim is you reach the relevant text and go through it

Even this is enough Puneet….will dig rest of it myself :)

Thanks,
Tushar

Tushar,
Thats great to hear. What I also meant (though I shd have written it also) was that in case you have doubts on it further..or could not find the relevant text, please do get back to us. Didnt mean to discourage you from asking questions….though going through my earlier post, I find myself sounding somthing like that. Very Sorry.

Puneet

Did we long NF above 4316+filter today?

vin

Tushar,
Thats great to hear. What I also meant (though I shd have written it also) was that in case you have doubts on it further..or could not find the relevant text, please do get back to us. Didnt mean to discourage you from asking questions….though going through my earlier post, I find myself sounding somthing like that. Very Sorry.

Puneet

Hey no Puneet..nothing like that, I got the intent of that post positively and specially after what has happened in the miniflow thread at TJ about people not remembering rules and asking them again rather than going thru the rule book…..
I found myself in the same net…….No need of sorries, just a reminder of go through the rules is enough….
Thanks a lot.

Vin, I wasnt there on the terminal on 19th june. Would have moved my SAR to 11AM pivot high when new low formed, and would have shifted my SAR to WRB high of 3 PM as moving filter, and then my filter wouldn't have allowed me to go long yet…….let us wait from seniors to say something on this.

Cheers,
Tushar

Am still short as I was out of town on 18th and 19th, and away from the terminal. To me it looks like the flow should have gone long above the 11 am high + f, but though the close is above the pivot, it is lower than the SAR. No EOD reversal because it is higher than the pivot?

I have not been able to understand Tushar's post just above this one about moving the SAR to the 3 pm high as moving filter - why/how can you move the SAR to a new high just after the formation of a new low, without waiting for a newer low to be formed?

Makhijani

In 60 min flow we move filter from pivot to pivot and not bar to bar ( as we do in miniflow) ….so we reversed to long position in last bar of 19th June and we are holding long position …..

Smart_trade

Hi all good morning ….. Puneet if you are around was friday also a break down failuer case ?

Regards
Satya

Good morning All….

No Satya, didnt take that as a BDF case, probably because of the pivot low formed by the 11am bar. I take BD only of the nearest/closest pivots, so breaking and reversing after the 18June 2pm bar was not considered by me.

Puneet

hmm i was thinking 18th june pivot low ……

thanks

Regards
Satya

Satya

I think you are still short and your SAR is at 1 pm bar hi of June 18 :-)

Bee

Where is our old friend Dr Prabh? I think he has finally bought tickets for a world tour on a cruise line :-)
Bee

It was a Valid pivot on friday Bee in my view …………….

Regards
Satya

Is 11am bar a valid PL - those went long on Friday…did we reverse? those already short did you add??

Is 11am bar a valid PL - those went long on Friday…did we reverse? those already short did you add??

Longs on friday would have reversed by now. But People who were short would not add (they are already carrying adds upto the hilt) unless SAR comes down.

Bee

> Longs on friday would have reversed by now. But People who were short would not add (they are already carrying adds upto the hilt) unless SAR comes down.

Bee

Thanks Bee..

Hi Bee there was no pivot to go short if one is long …. based on pivot high on friday …….. pivot low still at fridays low

Regards
Satya

Where is current SAR for shorts ? I am keeping at yesterday's 3.30 bar high- a bar back thing but not very convinced from myself…..

Where is current SAR for shorts ? I am keeping at yesterday's 3.30 bar high- a bar back thing but not very convinced from myself…..

Take a peek at 30 min TF. Maybe you will get some clue there.
Bee

Thanks Bee, keeping SAR 3 pm bar high…..:)

Thanks Bee, keeping SAR 3 pm bar high…..:)

What is the logic for keeping SAR there?
Bee

Two sideways bar on 60 minute 2 pm and 3 pm one of which is a hammer and 3 sideways on 30 min giving feel of a pivot….also 60 min 1 pm bar is a WRB after which all this happened.

Did anybody SAR above 11 am bar high ? as it became a pivot, i didnt do it, waiting for bars to touch a new low since it could be a flag….

Good going Tushar

Yes I took 11 am bar hi SAR and am long in next series.

Bee

Hi Bee and Tushar,

Am still short after all the excitement of the day as I too decided to keep my SAR above yday's 3pm high. Incidentally, although the flow doesn't take cognizance of these aspects, did anyone notice that today's high touched the downward trendline connecting the highs from 12th June onwards (including yday's 12 noon bar), after which the market closed decisively lower?

Bee, the market closed only a few points above your SAR…..you may possibly have to reverse to shorts tomorrow???

Makhijani

Thanks Makhijani….

looking at the trendline it seems market should give us a gud lower PH….

Bee that next series point I almost forgotten, if SAR hit will now keep in mind to take entry in next series….I get scared during expiry, very random moves…

Somehow today, all the threads everywhere on TS and TJ are kindda silent ??? Here even in ambush nobody was posting……wondering today was that quite a day…..doesnt seem so looking at the minifty 30 min miniflow…

Regards,
Tushar

With you Bee, I am long too off 11am high.

Milind

Yes Milind…..off the 11 am high,hope you took it in the July series though.

Saint

Good morning all …………..

Regards
Satya

GM all.
what is the latest for long positions for now ?
yesterday's 11am bar low - filter i guess….
am i right ?

I think you meant 12pm bar low..and Yes in that case.

Puneet

punnet.
it was 12 pm bar low- filter. mistake.
thanks anyway.
moody

Add over hod and SAR moves as well

Went long over today's 10 bar high - PH and keeping SAR at 2 PM bar low…

Good month for us,……off on a holiday for 2 weeks.Will restart trading on 13th.Meanwhile please continue your posts.To the relative junior,…There are enough power packed seniors around,each of them a great trader who would be of help to you.In this thread itself,you have the likes of ST,Bee,Puneet,MJ,Kapil, Prabhjeet,Komal and Satya who would ensure that any question would be looked into.

Meanwhile,I am around the next few days……..and relatively jobless :)..Have made the money for the month,and itching to teach if anyone wants to know something.Ask me anywhere in this forum,and will complete all questions before I leave.

Saint

Saint Sir,
Thankyou for your kind words. Have a nice holiday - a physical one - I mean which will require physical activity like hiking, biking, swimming, etc. We all have a sedentary life style especially traders who are cerebral creatures glued to the computer with major exercise being done by fingers of our hands only. Hope you do not mind my giving such advice to a doctor.

Have fun. And on your return lets increase the 5 L capital which is now 9 L to n th degree!!! :-)

Bee

can we shift SAR to 12 bar low now - PL?? (the next bar is a doji and havent taken out its high)

Wow Tushar…..first post of the day. Was wondering why the thread is so quiet today.

Did NO ONE reverse below the opening bar????

Makhijani

Such a quiet market….Saint ke jaate hi dekho kya ho gaya….

Thanks RKM, I totally forgot to do that….shorted as soon as you posted….god knows when will I be responsible towards my money atleast :(

Don't worry, Tushar, I missed the bus (to longs) on Tuesday and then again yesterday (which was in fact a better reversal point)….simply because I was concentrating on the bigger picture and wanted to escape the volatility due to the F&O expiry. Just think of the gains I lost and will forego on the way down as well. (I wish I could act as wisely as I appear to sound, though!!)

Makhijani

My God! You are right, RKM! One should have shorted at opening bar - filter. Totally forgot. Looks like getting myopic and not thnking enough. Reversed at 1200 bar - f, though.

Thanks for opening my eyes.

Mukund

SAR saved by a whisker…..will go long at 320..

Tushar — why "320'? Isn't the SAR at yday's hod?

Makhijani

Gap up against our position…. also pivot high formed after that…..so reversal happened in any case…

Hi Tushar,
I remember gap rules will be followed only in case of visual gap up/down against our position.
In todays case,as gap range is inside of yesterday's range, I think we should n't apply gap rules…But anyway PH formed at today's opening bar high.

Please correct me if I am wrong

Clever, Tushar…my turn to be caught napping today. Thanks.

Makhijani

welcome nagakiran…

I think visual gap is the key…..range etc I dont think its there in the rules……
lets wait for comment from senior.

Hi friends,

Have a great weekend. I am getting married next monday(29th June), so wont be there actively in front of the terminal for a couple of weeks. Seeking all your blessings and good wishes.

Hope to come back soon and join the flow.

Thanks a lot,

amrut

cheers!!!!!!!!!

Congrats :) ..lets party

Hi frien

ds,

………….Have a great weekend. I am getting married next monday(29th June), so wont be there actively in front of the terminal for a couple of weeks. Seeking all your blessings and good wishes.

Hope to come back soon and join the flow.

Thanks a lot,

amrut

Congratulation buddy …………………. :)

Regards
Satya

Almost an hour after open and still no post - I was wondering if everybody was on vacation.

Hi milind i think every body here …… we can discus pivot related thing any time

Regards
Satya

Satya - Hoping that NF cracks hod so that we get to move the SAR. BankNF got a new high, so I am moving SAR to day's low.

Can you tell if WRBs of friday would play any role in SAR at present - I am not too good with the WRB rules.

— Milind

EDIT: hod cracked, moving SAR

Moved SAR to today's low which is also a pivot low….

Congrats Amrut Kumar….Have a great marriage, awesome Honeymoon and happy couple life ahead……
Our best wishes with you.

Cheers,
Tushar

Hi milind now we get out pivot sorry for late reply me too not Good at WRB

regards
Satya

Adds triggered….

Can we use 2-bar rule in nifty with stops at 1pm bar low or SAR remains at LOD?

My 60 min view

Regards
Satya

Agreed Satya, sar at lod.

Nagakiran, rise in NF is not vertical (compare it to action in BankNF which is steep), so I am not using 2 bar rule on NF

Satya,Milind

Thanks for sharing your views.
Definitely the rise in BANK NIFTY is more than rise in NIFTY.
Also,one more difference I noticed between NIFTY & BANKNIFTY is that there is a slight pullback in NIFTY yesterday with the first 2 bars where as there is no pullback in BANKNIFTY.

I am curious to know if there is no pullback at all in NIFTY yesterday,can we consider the move as vertical enough to apply 2-bar rule?

I think yes if there was no pull back …… but most of time nifty gives pivot

Regards
Satya

Its nice we have a halt at previous pivot

Regards
Satya

Support did not hold. Reversal depending on your filter

Yes milind think flow is downward now

Regards
Satya

The Day we have

Regards
Satya

Added to the shorts and now SAR @ HOD + f

Kapil

Reversed to Longs…BDF. Stops LOD

Puneet

Puneet the BO bar also happens to be WRB, then why not place SAR below that, though not much of difference b\w LOD and WRB low

Prabh Paaji….as of now, Stops at WRB low. But at the time of reversal, WRB was unconfirmed, hence position sized as LOD stop.

Puneet

Ok will keep this in mind, though not into the Trade

Its still early, 45m to go. But market has suddenly turned volatile past couple of hours. We need to watch out for EOD reversal below 4334

sar moved to 11am bar (what is it with those 11am bars!?), reversal depending on your filter. BTW it looks like a H&S on hourly (or bearish flag on large timescale)

Flow in my View ,

Regards
Satya

Regards
Satta

Hi Satyen….from Satya pinku you changed yr ID to Satyen…now have you changed it to "Satta" ???

ST

Hello Satyen,

Was this not a valid pivot to short as the previous high was taken off? Just for my learning sake. Will be grateful for your explanation.

In fact it must have been EOD reversal after a short - is it?

……..

..Hi Satyen….from Satya pinku you changed yr ID to Satyen…now have you changed it to "Satta" ???

ST

Ah it was typing mistake dada ………no change of ID

Regards
Satya

……..

..Yes Bee we have pivot high now but if i say i will wait for this bar to complete i know you will kill me for my slow process but the reason i want to wait to complete this bar to avoid a scenarion like…. this bar recovers and hits the Pivot high made by 12 pm bar though rare but some time it happens and lead to whisaws ……… just my view

Regards
Satya

Hi alok We had a discussion with Bee about this scenarion on 18th june on this thread ……….waited the bar to complete (in my view )

Regards
Satya

ok - missed that one

Continuing the discussions in new thread..

Link to the new thread...

Kapil