Trading With The Flow!!!

Continuing the discussions here …

Link to the previous thread ...

Kapil

Trades for July 29, 2009

Kapil

hello seniors and co members
it seems no one is here
vijay

Good Morning Friends,

NF High-4511; Low-4483.5
BNF High-7268.95; Low-7195
MINI High-4510; Low-4484

Priyank

All are here…trading silently…if any question,you may ask…..

Smart_trade

Can we use sf for short after this bar?

yes …now used sf for short!!!

Rehards
VJAY

VJAY,

We generally switch to SF after we have had a move in a direction. Hence, Wouldn't advise that… MF is better.

No long yet… since using MF…

Pl at 15 trf now can we move our short entry there?

Regards
VJAY

That is a 30 min PL… although not a typical one… but yes a PL nonetheless.

Vijay, I think you are talking about 11.45 (15 min PL)

Yes manoj 1145 bar Pl….

Regards
VJAY

For me, no short entry there yet.

Now SAR at 4513-f………we have ourselves 5th Bullish bar on the trot,SAR 2 bars back.4513-f…..15min pivots at 4513-f as well.

Saint

saint sar 4513-f or 4513 as 2nd bar is hving low of 4520 not 4513???

hvtrader, it is low of 12 o'clock bar - sf, so 4513-f

ohhh i think ur talking abt july

A strong possibility of TFA. Will know for sure at 1.30 Hoping to get a better 15 min PL by then.

yes,hv,talking July …..

July contracts till today.August contracts from tomorrow.

Saint

Saint sir,

Where you entered long!!!!!!! Please …….
for me till now no trade

Regards
VJAY

Looking to initiate Short below 13.15 PL-sf

1) 60 and 30 min are showing taily bars
2) 15 min has shown a PL at 13.15

Kapil, Vineet Pls confirm.

Vjay,

Saint is using the original MF… therefore his long would have triggered over 11.00 bar high+mf

Amit, Shorts at the level that Saint had mentioned. Thats a pivot on 15 min too. The 13.15 pivot is a sideways pivot at the moment, should be avoided.

Kapil

Looks like SAR could be raised to 13.30 bar low-sf now.

Saint Sir / Amit , Where you have taken long position and why ? Please tell. Thanks

Manoj,

Not long… we (TJ members) are all using larger MF values. :)

Saint is using the original filter values so he must've longed over the 11.00 bar high+mf.

Nice to see your post Manoj. Hope you did very well yesterday.

Thanks Amit for reply. Unfortunately, these days, I am not able to trade regularly. Yesterday also I have to close my trades in between. But this may prove very dangerous and I must give my full time during trading hours with full concentration. Will have to finish my personal work soon.

ah,yes,amit…….didn't know that you guys were using larger filters.Sorry about that confusion.

Saint

Gentlemen… no entries thus far. SOH… all day.

This lull is driving me to learn Ambush more and more with each passing day. :) :)

3PM bar gone….no entry for me now….

I don't know how big your filters are,Manoj…….so cannot comment.But yes,smaller filters over 4512…….Once you get a TFA with a Bottoming Tail on the 60 and a pivot high on 15,we are down to small filters.Unless your small filters are that huge,that is.

Saint

Trade for July 30, 2009

Kapil

I don't know how big your filters are,Manoj…….so cannot comment.But yes,smaller filters over 4512…….Once you get a TFA with a Bottoming Tail on the 60 and a pivot high on 15,we are down to small filters.Unless your small filters are that huge,that is.

Thanks a lot Saint Sir for the crystal clear explanation. I,really,was not knowing that TFA part for the first entry and till time I thought it should to be applied to reversals only.

Thanks once again for clearing my doubts.

Best regards
Manoj

Saint,

For the ones booking profit at EOD, it has been a tough trading Miniflow for the past 9 odd trading sessions. The books have been pretty much at break even. All profits levelled against losses.

To balance such effect it seems one ought to ambush stocks or indices. Else, an entire month could go without income. That is unpleasant keeping in mind the amount of time one puts in everyday.

I, for one, have started exploring ambush. Couple of friends have been helpful. Lets see how that goes down.

To start off, what would you recommend, Ambushing Indices or Stocks?

Stocks seems to be giving good diversification, but so many charts are disorienting at first. Please advice.

Amit.

Hi guys …

can't trade today ..have to move outstation for office work …

feeling very bad that can't trade miniflow with saint today ..

but on my chart can't find initial PH on 15 min where kapil & saint goes long…will look at investbull..

so join you all at monday ..

all the best..

vineet

Vineet, the initial PH was the opening bar high. Though we do not take such pivots normally, but then we had a bottoming tail on 60. So went long over that, its high almost at the same level as that of PH.

Kapil

Amit,will look into your question and analyse July Miniflow Nifty and let's go over it together tomorrow morning.

Saint

Saint,

For the ones booking profit at EOD, it has been a tough trading Miniflow for the past 9 odd trading sessions. The books have been pretty much at break even. All profits levelled against losses.

To balance such effect it seems one ought to ambush stocks or indices. Else, an entire month could go without income. That is unpleasant keeping in mind the amount of time one puts in everyday.

I, for one, have started exploring ambush. Couple of friends have been helpful. Lets see how that goes down.

To start off, what would you recommend, Ambushing Indices or Stocks?

Stocks seems to be giving good diversification, but so many charts are disorienting at first. Please advice.

Amit.

Thanks Amit for raising this point. I have the same same query what you raised about Miniflow trades for this month. For me, this month is almost break even. I thought to ask it to seniors but then could not dare as someone may think that I may not have followed the rules and hence thought first to analyse the trades myself and then ask. But it would be really helpful if we can analyse the trades together for this month and to conclude whether it was our mistake to follow rules or its a part of game. For me , the weakest part, still, is profit booking and MM. I think, such month test the MM part of the trader in real sense.

Saint Sir, Thanks a lot for your assurance to help in analyzing the trades. Will definitely participate with homework.

Best Regards
Manoj

i think its move 1/2 short with sf???

Maonj, please go through Saint sirs blog on 29th July…Hope u will get the answer there!!!

Thanks Bijo… definitely go through it thoroughly at EOD.

most chatter group ko kiski nazar laggai/
??
no body there

can we consider 11:30 bar as PL(as difference in 11:30 n 12 bar low is of only 1pt)//?????

Seniors,
can we short @ 11:30 PL-SF now? As 15mins & 30mins shows same PL and the next bar on 30 mins is doji.

Thanks and regards,
Priyank

So far,no trade in the NF Miniflow……….

Saint

No 11.30 cannot be considered a PL, its just a bearish bar followed by some more smaller bars.

Kapil

okkkkk

Dear Kapil
Thanks for replying. So short is still LOD-SF?

Priyank

for short wait till LOD n for long wait till HOD, looks like that today will be a notrade day.

for long we can use SF or mf only?/

Yes, for shorts LOD and for longs HOD. and SF for the longs now, since we use SF for pivots.

Kapil

Can we use SF over 12.15 PH ( 15 min) after completion of this bar as per TFA ? In my opinion.. Yes. Seniors please reply.
Thanks

Now can we go long over 1.00 bar high + SF as per TFA ?

i think not a ph on 15 min as difference of just 1.5 pts rest depends on seniors comments

Manoj, Longs still above HOD. TFA means other TFs are warning us of a change in trend. But till now in 15 min charts, we had a lower PL, so clues yet on the direction. But yes we have a PL, so can take shorts below that.

Kapil

Thanks Kapil !

PH on 15 n 20 can take long according to 1pm ph on 15tf

Approaching Miniflow Long Entry at 4667+f

Saint Sir, Shall we not move it bar by bar i.e. over 1.30 bar high (4670.50) + SF.

Manoj, once we have pivots, we dont move it bar by bar. But yes now the PH is at 1.30 bar high.

Manoj,as explained by Kapil……

Yep,now entry stands at 1:30 bar high+f

Saint

means bar to bar movement only in case of entry according to 1st bar only not in case of pivots?

Thanks Kapil. I was,really, not knowing this and was under misconception that in Miniflow we have to take entries moving bar by bar only. I think, I have to do revision of the method thoroughly. Thanks for helping and keeping updated time to time.

Thanks Saint Sir !

Best Regards
Manoj

i think till 2pm we cant conclude that(entry as per 1.30)

before joining TS,on days like this i use to make my broker rich but not nw,hahahhha
thanks to the gr8 Saint

I may be hawkish in my views or maybe I am from old school but I get a feeling that questions are coming as seniors promptly reply - this is very easy. Press the button and get the reply - this goes on and on.

Some degree of self study, restraint and application of mind is also necessary.

My views but some questions have been replied to many many times and still they are being asked which points towards lax attitude and taking advantage of this friendly site.

Tough post I guess.

Bee

short triggered

bee it may be of the reason that we new comers dont hve acess to previous threads

bee it may be of the reason that we new comers dont hve acess to previous threads

In TJ miniflow has more than 1000 pages and all scenarios have been discussed threadbare many times. In TS all threads are available to all always.

Bee

hvtrader, everybody has access to all threads. You can go through any thread you like. Yes, you cannot post in some threads that have been locked but for that you can post your query in the current thread related to that topic.

Threads are locked for posting and not for going through them.

Kapil

yaa got it 1st post is hving the link to previous thread

so in future raise queries here or not/?

HV, this is not to discourage from asking questions. Take the example of Revati - I do not recall having read any post by her. But her first post on the forum was amazing. That lady has done her homework and the first post contained queries which were not of basic level. That does not mean you cannot ask basic questions but please make an attempt read the previous literature available.

So please trade, ask questions and try to think independently.

My post was not addressed to anyone. It was a general one expressing what I felt.

Bee

TJ miniflow thread suna suna ho gaya hai :(

Thanks Bee for your kind advice. Your post will be taken in right spirit.

But it happens, asking questions which were answered previously, mainly due to

1) The reason which you have mentioned, lax attitude. If it is so ,then it should not be there at all.
2) One person is very slow learner than the other.
3) A person remains busy in his personal work and does not trade for many days and in between there if the particular query is answered it may missed due to going through so many posts in those missed days.
4) In a particular approach, like for eg. TFA, one is very slow learner so he ask question again and again.

The above mentioned reasons are not excuse to hard work but it happens. I still remember the incidence where the efficient trader of Miniflow were cleared about there misconceptions despite of trading for so many months. Yes, but I agree that they had not repeated the query again. That should be the approach.

Please don't take my post in wrong way.

Thanks

Thanks Manoj:-)
Trade well
Bee

its true manoj n bee take my example ihad gone through eod reversal n tfa many times but was able to under stand eod reversal little little n tfa zero but nw after raising many questions n reading to repiles to the query of fellow newcomers nw eod reversal is very clear n tfa is clear n nw going through previous thread i read some where that dont go word by word of methods(written by some senior) so in that case we hv to raise question n its upto seniors to answer it or not

Part profit booking near TL support level.

Gap closing today itself ??? will be very good for the next upmove….

well done,Manoj……great going.

Saint

Thanks Saint Sir….

HV
The seniors here will answer all questions:-)
carry on:-)
Bee

Now that profits are in the pocket…….zero in on smaller tfs……It is past 3pm already

Saint

Should be all out of short and in longs by now

Bee,correct on all that you have mentioned above……..but realised that there are a few cobwebs that need clearing realtime.Therefore the hand holding…….cannot carry on indefinitely,I totally agree.But over the next week,hope to clear a few things……..

Thanks as always,my friend.

Saint

saint sir out of short is ok but long not clear

Hmm……Silence……what is happening,guys?:)

Enjoy the blast off…..

Saint

ps:hope u r enjoying it long,and not holding it short and hoping

Thanks Saint

Did not mean to hurt anyone's sentiments.

Bee

Long over 4628+f,HV…..

Saint

bee we can also understand what ur trying to say that spoon feeding is not advisable every time

not at all,Bee…..keep it coming.In total agreement with you on what you've written.

Saint

No Bee… you did not hurt anyone sentiments at all and really what ever you said is absolutely correct.

Saint Sir, as per my understanding till date, we do not take positions after 3.00 PM in minflow ( again sorry, if I would have missed it if it would have answered earlier).

Please explain when, where and on what basis you took long position. Thanks

sir 4628 not a PH on any tf confused

Manoj…….those were the cobwebs that I was speaking about.Got added over time ….not at all,….I would take a new trade at 3:15pm……perhaps,after 3:20 is pushing your luck.

Saint

Thanks Saint Sir….

sir 4628 not a PH on any tf confused

5 min TF

only reason i can understand for going long can be 2bar rule on 15tf as 4628 is not PH on any tf- is this the case??

bee 5 min?? as per the method we trade 30 min tf with help immidiate lower n higher tf, n 5min is not the immidiate lower one/?

5min TF,30min chart previous bar high,……..after 3pm rules apply.

We start to zero in on smaller tfs…..More later,have to run now.

Saint

Thanks. Waiting for your inputs Sir.

thanks, me to waiting n reading method again

Trades for July 31st, 2009

Kapil

Hi kapil,
As you have posted the trades for minflow on 31-7-2009,buddy could you please tell me why the long has not been triggered at the high of first five min candle + filter becouse high of first five minute candle is 4660 and high of 11:00 bar is 4678.65 it was a green candle first and then become red.buddy please tell me why you have not gone long from high of first 5 min candle + filter,if we assume the filter is 14 then also the long will triggered 4460+14 = 4476.If we put 4476 buy in our system as per rule then the long will be triggered.please clarify thanks.

Kapil one more thing,as u and all the seniors r reallyy ammazzzing guys,hats off to u guys.Please tell me one thing as per your point of view in comparision between 60 min flow and 30 min flow,which flow is best for good profits buddy this is just a gesture to know your point of view becouse i want to master one of the above said flow with the help of you guys(kapil,vineet,parmod,saint sir)becouse i have seen many rules but this is ultimate which we all call flooooooooww.under you guys leadership i will try to learn more.

Hi Punu,

I am also a new comer and silently going thru all the posts of seniors and juniors. I may not be correct to answer your question but forgive me if you find anything wrong in it.

Mastering one of 60 or 30 min flow doesnt matter unless you master the entire skills of trading which includes money management,risk management, mind management, greed management…..though booking profits is all our ultimate aim, it won't come handy as easy as that untill we put all our hard work in reading multiple charts of multiple time frames, candle sticks, chart patterns, entry and exit strategy, going thru whipsaws, perfect trend flows, imperfect and cheating flows :) …though you master in this, it wont guarantee that you can book profits all your time….lets aim for perfect trade and by doing so, what ever comes in the plate, lets happily take it …it takes time…..i mean again it takes time, more time for us to learn and experience it…

Remember, taj mahal is not built in one day, our beloved saint sir doesn't become a saint to all of us in one single day……saint sir is also like our newbees once upon time and now he is a true saint, all because of his hard work, experience, sharing of thougts…and attaining to his level is no way guaranteed but aim for it and lets with all our hardwork, patience, almighty's grace, little luck try to attain a level a little less to him :)….

Thanks,
Sathia

Hi Punu Bhai….sorry to answer to the query posted to kapil sir…actually got some old memories back…during my graduation in medical i had a friend named puneet wadwa…loved to call him punu…and now the same name brought memories of the past spent with him…so trying to answer the query to a friend if u dont mind…..and also answering this is with no intention to hurt kapil sir…
punu bhai…first of all we look for 15min TF for the first 1hr of trade….followed by 30 min till 3PM…then finally 15min for the last 1/2 hr of trade…..so considering the 15min Tf there is no long….as u are considering the 11bar thus u are getting it as long….now the important part….plz go through the rules for the method as this will solve all ur query related to miniflow…..
u can get the full notes on the school blog here itself….just go my dear friend and explore the whole world of miniflow posted by saint sir….and everthing will be clear….posting in a good spirit…dont take it otherwise…..take care.
regards,
Raj

Thanks Sathia Bhai and Raj005 Bhai for the kind words of inspiration.Thanx

hi punu …

looking at 31-07-09 chart .first we have first 5 min bar then we add moving filter to high of 5 min bar i.e. 4660 & punched order .

if orders are not executed before formation of first 30 min bar (upto 10.30 ) then we shift mov fil to high of this 30 min bar ..high of first 30 min bar is 4670 that means longs are not triggered upto 10.30..so now long entry at 4670 + mov fil ..

so we move mov fil bar by bar till we get entry either way ..

hope it clears now & if something is still blur then plz do comeback ..

vineet

Punu, your query regarding the 31-07-09 trade has been answered by Vineet. This is the first thing that is to be taken care of in this method. I suggest you go through the method carefully and also through the charts that have been posted on Miniflow threads.

Now coming to your query regarding comparison of 30 min and 60 min flow. In my view the two cannot be compared and the recent writeup by Saint on his blog will give you an insight on the importance of various TFs. Moreover we are all different individuals, so one has to take own call on what and how to trade.

Kapil

Thanks a lot to all seniors,it is clear now.thanks

short below 10:30 bar low - lf
long above 1st bar high +lf

good morning guys ….

punu, hope you shift your short's entry ..

vineet

TFA applicable ?
doji on 30 min, pivot high on 15 min, PH on 15 min matches with high of 10.30 bar, hourly bar of 60 min, taily bar on 60 min, shall we go long above this PH at 10.30 ?

yepppppppp

Tushar, As the difference between 10.30 PH on 15 and 10.00 bar high ( HOD ) at that time was very less, we can go long over 10.00 bar high + SF ( SF as TFA as you said) . My views. Vineet, what you say?

manoj we can change entry to sf only in case of move1/2 not in this case

So,hope all long here……….at these levels.

4656+sf

Saint

yes manoj , long as clear TFA AT 15 MIN PH…

sir sf?/ no move 1/2 till nw???

Reasons same as always…..TFA.Think Tushar had already mentioned it a few posts back….

Saint

Thanks Saint Sir / Vineet………

Once tfa comes in,HV,then everything back to normal trading……..larger filters are to somewhat protect us from a few unnecessary trades because we are taking only the first bar high or low,once we get a pivot or tfa agrees,we are back to small filters.

Saint

but yes Manoj……no harm in waiting a few rupees more and taking it over the high of the first bar.But what I wanted to impress was that you have your TFA in motion,and that,you are now looking at small filters till end of day.

Saint

ok long as per tfa was clear n nw use of sf as per tfa is also clear, thanks to fellow miniflowers- manoj,tushar

thanks sir 4 the detailed explanation

Yes Saint Sir… very clear now. Thanks

sar 11:45 pl - sf or lod-sf??

At present , SAR still at LOD -SF

manoj i suppose may be bcose of the reason of looking at 30min pivot in between 11am-3pm is the reason for sar at lod-sf or some other reason as per tfa???????

till nw sar is missed just by 1 pt

At the time, when you asked for SAR, though 60 Min was topping tail bar indicating bearishness but there was no PL formed on 15 min but after completeion of 12.15 bar , there was 11.45 Pl formed so at that time there was TFA and hence I went short at the crack of that PL with filter.

seniors ur comments required -does tfa means that 30 min bars n pivots r completely out of the system even between 11-3 if we hv pivots on 15tf??

My SL triggered….below day's low…..look like a whipsaw day for me….

after completetion of present bar ie 1pm bar if it rmains LH n LL then one can look to add long over 4663+af as per 2 bar rule or not?

not LL n LH nw but advice required that 2 bar rule can be use to add in such conditions or not?

As far as the rule goes, adds are at break of pivot +- add filter or on break of WRB +- add filter.
Dont remember anything like 2 bar rule for adds.

ok

2 bars rule is not used for adds.Adds on pivots,WRBs

Smart_trade

wondering No ones short triggered except mine and Tushar. Even if one puts his/her SAR at 11.00 30 min PL., then also it would have triggered. ( Though as per chart not as its low is 4616 but in market watch low is 4612.60.

11 pl low 4625 sar 4625-sf 1pm low 4616 just missed by 1 pt

4616 low is as per chart but actually it is 4612.60. That is what I am saying. Are you paper trading HV?

i think ur tradeing minifty n in that case low is 4614.35 not 12.60 may be a technical problem at ur end resulted u to enter a bad trade or a technical problem at my end prevents me to enter a bad trade

why u think so??
paper trading?/

one advice i can give u even after being new comer is that dont place market order after watching actual price place limit orders only

Yes HV, Mini is 4614 and NF is 4612.60 ( Market Watch Window as per SK). I am talking about NF only.

I though you are paper trading as the paper trader mostly look only to charts values ( happened with me too when I was paper trading). Ok.. leave it. Lets trade.

Thanks

PS : I am trading by placing limit orders only.

sold 1/3 at resistance level…

added

yes hvt , added

So,now in Trade 3 so far in NF MINIFLOW.

TRADE 1:Entry=4657+f
Stopped at 4625-f

TRADE 2:Entry short at 4625-f
Stopped at 4665+f

TRADE 3:Entry long at 4665+f

Saint

manoj the gr8 saint backed u

…..and ADD 1 to longs in Trade 3 as said above by Vineet,triggerred.

Saint

SAR hit . Long now. Thanks Saint for giving your trades four our analysis.

2:30 bar made HH just by 1.65pts so nw can apply sar as per 4bar rule 2 bars back or 2.30 is not considered as HH bcos of very small difference???

flow not flowing but flying

Enthus

iasm is serious lacking on the upside.

Raising SAR to 5 min PL in NF. 4668.55 at 14.05

In BNF at a little wary of shorts. Would it be late to SAR below LOD? (That may not even happen until 3.30 today, but just asking theoretically)

All out now.

The advantage of trailing stop was on my side. Although, I had a bearish view as per the above…. today ended up in green.

Ambush is pretty fun… :) Shall certainly see you tomorrow. Thanks MJ, Saint, TFL, LV for the guidance.

Amit.

If any one is undercapatilised (comparatively …not having sufficient capital to trade miniflow ), which one is good to trade….Miniflow or Ambush from MM point as well as R:R point of view.

Saint Sir / ST/Vineet/ Kapil and all Ambush traders.. please give your opinion.

Thanks
Manoj

Manoj, whether to trade Miniflow or Ambush has got more to do with what suits that person's personality. Its more to do with the psychological part than capital. Now coming to capital, if capital is an issue one can trade in mininifty or in cash securities instead of futures.

But sufficient capitalization as per the requirements of the method and scrip is a must.

Kapil

Trades for August 3rd, 2009

Kapil

Manoj ,

Take both as they are immensely profitable or choose either.Finally it is up to your personality style.Yes,it is sweet stuff ambush-ing a few stocks,but miniflow is steady,calm profits.Ambush can have bad days when mkt goes range bound…the best thing about miniflow is that it gives you ample time during trading , trading the other methods ..

Both are great…….if you can manage more than one strategy,think you should mix and match

& about undercapatilised , the lots are for future contracts only ..in cash scripts , you can choose any no of shares as initial position ..but I found R:R better in ambush trades ..

I think you want to enter BNF in ambush thats why this question ..don't worry friend ..saint will introduce a new scrip along with BNF ( i read it in one of his post ) so you can enter in that ..

you have been doing great so far.Well Done!!

vineet

GOOD MORNING SENIORS AND FRIENDS

Thanks a lot Vineet Bhai for detailed and crystal clear explanation. You not only gave me the complete insight but also boosted my confidence. That is what I always admire about you. Saint / ST / Kapil / MJ /Puneet / Pramod / Prem / Bee and many more ( sorry if anyone name is missed ) are great personalities here who not only teach selflessly but boost confidence of learners. That's really Great!!

Yes Vineet… basically got tempted to trade Ambush for Bank seeing Saint Sir's performance but then realized my capital and personality traits which are, at present, not suitable to trade any other method than miniflow. But will prepare myself very soon for it under all your kind guidance. Till then learning and paper trading will continue….

Best regards
Manoj

Welcome vsbudhiraja to TraderSaint. Happy to see you here.

You are most welcome manoj ..

Vineet

nw can go short as per the 10:30 15min Pl -SF???

not a PL yet on 30 min , HVT..

PL after 11.00.01…..

even for TFA ..would wait for 60 min bar to complete..

hv,
after 3 min its PL on 30 also!!!

Regards
VJAY

saint , a question from my side ..if short not triggered till 11.30 then will we shift short's entry to 11.30 bar low or keep it at 10.30 bar low till 11.30 bar low makes as PL ?

I used to shift it from bar to bar but one day kapil told that we shift it from pivot to pivot ..

plz clear my doubt..

thanx

The same doubt remains, Kapil do not shift entry bar to bar if pivot has formed, while on TJ we used to shift it bar to bar…..

may be a silly question -for a bar to clasify as PL,its low should be lower than previous n next bar but in todays case 1st 30 min bars low is lower than 1st bar -5minbar,(not hving 30 min bar prior to it) n also lower than 11bar low so this can be clasified as pl,in absence of previous 30 min bar?????/

Saint sir,
Please clear doubt of vineet.its doubt of many others also.Now another same situation coming in long also.so please……

Regards
VJAY

Hope all are long now!!!

Regards
VJAY

Vineet… the same doubt to me also but few days back, somewhere from one of post of Saint Sir, I got impression that once pivot formed, we don not shift it bar by bar but still I am doubtful and awaiting his confirmation now , and he also assured that there are few things which he will be clarifying for miniflow in coming days. Waiting for it too….

Saint Sir… please clarify in your free time.

Thanks
Manoj

vijay u longed over 11.30 15min ph??

HV,

No PH of 11 bar +f

Regards
VJAY

okkk

sar lod-sf or 12pm 15min PL low-sf?/?

Manoj, whether to trade Miniflow or Ambush has got more to do with what suits that person's personality. Its more to do with the psychological part than capital. Now coming to capital, if capital is an issue one can trade in mininifty or in cash securities instead of futures.

But sufficient capitalization as per the requirements of the method and scrip is a must.

Kapil

Thanks a lot Kapil for your valuable suggestion. Somehow, unfortunately, noticed your post later.Sorry for that.

Best Regards
Manoj

SENIORS
IS THE SAR 11.45 LOW -SF 15 MIN.??????

VSR,

as diff between this and LOD is not much keeping sarv at LOD ..

now keeping eye at 12.45 low withnTFA but waiting for 60 min bar to complete…

Vineet Bhai…. I have a query…please answer it whenever you get time.

……..11.30 bar ( 30 min ) bullish with bottoming tail but at 11.30 no 15 min PH.
……..At 11.45 PH on 15 min forms ( not classical but for assumption lets take it as visually obivous PH formed).

Now shall we take entry on this PH considering TFA before completion of next 30 min bar i.e. 12.00 bar because at 11.45 we can say that there is TFA. (30 min bullish with bottoming tail completely formed supported by 15 min PH at 11.45)This situation arise most of time. Hence asking.

What is your opinion.

Thanks
Manoj

SENIORS
HAS THE SAR SHIFTED TO 1.15 PL -SF
VIJAY

SENIORS
SAR HAS BEEN HIT

Vineet… my shorts triggered below 12.45 15 min PL ( 4682.10 ) -SF on the basis of TFA. Am I correct ? Thanks

yes ..mine too at 13.15 pl…

now added below 11.30 pl

adds too

trailing stop loss acc to 2 bar rule…

SENIORS
I HAVE EXITED AT 4644

VSR,,its always your choice where to book profit ..

all the best…

vineet

VSR… any particular reason to exit there ? Have u exited all ? If exited all, then it is not as per miniflow rules. Even if you have booked part profit there, you should have strong reason to do so. As Vinnet Bhai Said, its your choice to book part profit but take profit at some strategic points like important support or resistance level.

today paper traded the method learned from saint on 31st july ie long or short 5min pivot after 3pm-26pt gain gud one thanks Saint
sure apply in actual trading next time

SENIORS
SORRY ABOUT THE ABRUPT EXIT .BUT SINCE I HAD TO LEAVE THE COMPUTER SCREEN FOR MORE THAN 20 MINS. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO BOOK PROFITS AND LEAVE
VIJAY

Then its absolutely correct VSR……

Trade for August 4th, 2009

Kapil

Vineet, Tushar

Regarding the doubt regarding whether we shift the entry bar by bar or pivot by pivot, the same doubt was raised on 31st July too, and Saint had posted to consider pivot only. That was in response to Manoj's query. Just scroll up in this thread, once we have pivots, we take entry based on pivots only.

Kapil

Thanks Kapil for confirming it again. To all…….For this please read posts on 29th July ( Posting time : 13.34 ) onwards ( successive 3 posts ) where Saint Sir had confirmed this ( On getting pivot.. no entry on moving bar by bar).

Best Regards
Manoj

Can any one post Rules ( or provide link ) to trade miniflow after 3.00 PM. Till date I was aware of only 30 min miniflow rules where after 3 PM we look to exit and no new positions. But since last few days I am seeing that Saint and few people take entries, after 3.00 PM also based on 5 min Pivot ( not certain about it, but I think so looking at trades).

Vineet , are you aware of it….If one can post these rules, it will be a great help. Thanks

Manoj

manoj check the 4thlast entry on 31st july in this thread posted by the gr8 Saint

Kapil in todays trade detail chart u mentioned going long over 3 pm bar high +sf but on 31st Saint sir told us to consider 5min pivot near by 3pm????

seniors i think the thread ANY THING ON PIVOTS is no more with this website so plz reply to the following query on pivot

for a bar to clasify as PL,its low should be lower than previous n next bar but in todays case 1st 30 min bars low is lower than 1st bar -5minbar,(not hving 30 min bar prior to it) n also lower than 11bar low so this can be clasified as pl,in absence of previous 30 min bar?????

in nutshell before 1st 30min bar we hv low or high on a different TF ie 5min so can be considered as PL or PH according to that or not?

HV
First 5 min bar in miniflow is treated at par with other 30 min bars. Yes 10:30 bar low is a PL.
Bee

thanks BEE 4 resolving query same in case of 60min???

Yes HV same for 60 min flow also. Full honour to first 5 min bar equivalent to rest 1 hour bars.

Suggest going thru Rajesh's charts as an exercise for pivots. His charts are best for illustrating PLs and PHs. Link given for your convinience.

http://tradersaint.com/forum/t-150613/rajesh-s-flow-journal#post-456682

Also 'Anything on Pivot' is still there in this wonderful site, link as below:

http://tradersaint.com/forum/t-139132/anything-on-pivots#post-419029

Again at the cost of sounding abrasive, I would suggest all new comers to read all posts of that day at least - irrespective whether it is pertaining to their system of trading or not. Then try to go thru all post here in this site. It is not a tall order but to become professional trader one has to put in hard work.

Seniors and all oldies here go thru all posts here. If they miss any day they catch up later but I do not think they miss out on any post. At least I do not.

Take care

Bee

thanks BEE 4the links n ur expert opinion thanks

Sometimes looking at all 3 frames together helps.My eyes may have missed but strangely 10:15 am does look like a PL and it was taken down by 11 bar in 15 min charts..But the recovery was so quick that subsequent patterns on higher TFs became suddenly bullish.

All I wish to ask seniors were they even considering shorting at that levels or ws I completely wrong?

Sidharth

P.S sorry to take so much space in this post

Sidharth, The pivot you are talking about was a pivot on 30 min charts too, but even with sf, the shorts were saved. Had it been taken out, we would have certainly taken the short.

Kapil

Kapil in todays trade detail chart u mentioned going long over 3 pm bar high +sf but on 31st Saint sir told us to consider 5min pivot near by 3pm????

hvtrader, Do check the charts. The 3 pm bar high is a pivot on 5 min charts. After 3 pm, we check pivots on 5 min charts.

Manoj, the rules after 3pm remain the same, except that we check the short TFs too. There was never a rule not to trade after 3pm. The reason we check shorter TF after 3pm is that the moves after 3pm are fast and furious, so we just want to extract some more juice out of the market.

Kapil

Manoj,

It was put up in TJ a loooooooong time ago……….I wish Rajesh were around,he usually compiles all this and would have put it up.I have seen Vineet,Kapil and ST using that many times to perfection as the day comes to an end and we cannot wait for 30min pivots as our reference points…..

Saint

Oh,already answered by Kapil…..Thank you,my friend.

Saint

Thanks you Kapil…. means you want to say we trade smaller time frames after 3.00 PM with the same rules as of miniflow and I think that is the reason we took entry on 5 min pivot applying 30 min miniflow rules. Am I correct.? If not please correct me.. Kapil.

As far as I know, we do not take new positions after 3.00 PM. I am regularly visiting TS Site from last 4-5 days only. It may would have happened that in TS Site it had been mentioned somewhere but as I was regular on TJ before this, so I don't remember any incidence where any one there took new position after 3.00 PM. Vineet What do you say ? I think same thing happened with rule for entry over pivot ( not to move it bar by bar) hence Vineet also had raised that question yesterday.

As rightly suggested by Bee, I must go through each post on TS before asking any question. There is no substitute to hard work. Just want to tell that TJ members might have missed these/ such things because of not visiting TS. That's why I am appealing TJ members to be on this site regularly.

Regards
Manoj

Thanks Saint Sir…. If it had been there on TJ before, and as you said, it is now confirmed that it is there on TJ, I would have to seriously improve myself for my lax attitude.

Regards
Manoj

Not lax at all,Manoj….you are doing fine.Anything that is a doubt that needs looking into,feel free to ask.One of the mods,if not me, will be there to help out with your queries.

Meanwhile,let me dig TJ for that post…..:(…..

Saint

Thanks a lot Saint Sir…. Sir please don't go for digging post and take so much trouble. As you said, it is confirmed. Its we that we should do it. Your time is very precious for us. You have given all the good things to us and you all are helping us time to time despite of repeated explanations but as rightly pointed by Bee, we might be taking its undue advantage. So lets allow us to work hard.

Best Regards
Manoj

Thanks you Kapil…. means you want to say we trade smaller time frames after 3.00 PM with the same rules as of miniflow and I think that is the reason we took entry on 5 min pivot applying 30 min miniflow rules. Am I correct.? If not please correct me.. Kapil.

Correct Manoj.. And don't bother about if there has been a miss. We are continuously on the learning path and keep on learning everyday.

Kapil

long triggered

As rightly suggested by Bee, I must go through each post on TS before asking any question.

Manoj, I never said that you have to read all the posts before asking the questions. The evolution of a method takes a chronological order. Any serious student would read all the posts especially when such a thing as evolutionary posts are available right from the day one when the method rules were posted. All the doubts that you and others are raising have been discussed. Ask questions by all means.

Only thing is that when we learned we used to quote specific rules and posts while asking questions which pointed to the fact that we had at least read the relevant posts and are not understanding something which is fair enough.

My basic disappointment with the questions here is that new comers are asking questions which gives an impression that they have not read the earlier vast wealth of information which has accumulated in TJ and TS threads - which is a pity and is not the way to go about learning something.

Rest I leave it to you guys to pursue your learning as best as you can.

Reading past posts is probably the least one can do to learn the craft here.

Cheers

Bee

GOOD MORNING VINEET BHAI

Gone long and reverted……

reversed to short

Bee… please don't misunderstand me or my any of posts. I have utmost respect for all of you as I have for Saint Sir. There is nothing wrong written by you previously and I take your suggestion with full respect. I can very well understand your feelings to us. I absolutely don't have any intention to hurt to you or any member in this forum, whether junior or senior.
My English is not so good, so it may happen that I want to say something in respectful manner but could not convey it properly so may be misunderstood. But believe me, I am honestly telling that I can't imagine to hurt any one from my side in this forum. Rather such posts, like you posted few days before, forces us to think about ourselves and to improve.

So don't take any wrong feeling from my post.. Bee. Keep such things coming from you so if we become lazy, it will force us to think in right direction and will keep us flowing.

And I honestly accept that, I find it very tedious to go though previous posts, if many days are missed and hence I ask immediately to avoid that tedious work. but it should not be.

Best regards

Manoj

G.M. punu & all..

manoj …you know very well that my session end by 3.00 pm itself ….:)

vineet

I sometimes feel that we are getting too much involved in rules…keep the broader picture in mind….rules are made as a template…there is nothing etched in stone….for example taking new position after 3:00….we earlier had a rule that we were not taking new position after 3:00 but there is nothing hard and fast about this rule….if you can handle taking position after 3:00 and trade till 3:27…by all means go ahead…..if you cannot…dont take position after 3:00….use the method as a template and not as something to be followed to the letter……..

Smart_trade

Thanks ST da……..

VINEET BHAI,I AM BASED IN DELHI WHEN EVER YOU COME TO DELHI PLEASE LET ME KNOW U WILL HAVE A WARM WELCOME IN DELHI IF U HAVE ANY WORK IN DELHI PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

I agree with ST. Saint has crafted his teaching to raw minds wonderfully. Only after trading 30 min charts successfully and gaining experience that he introduced the fast paced trading of after 3pm on smaller TF. Later the ambush. All in good time.

Manoj, my friend, I am not hurt (am beyond such things on a public forum). I have been thru the same situation as you. It took me 20 days of hard study to go thru 'To teach a man—' then about same time for 60 min but was lucky to catch miniflow from day one. But it took me around 5 months to start trading and about that time only I put up posts in TJ.

While reading the above threads all major posts were recorded in a word doc file for later study and reference. I think that is how all of us did our learning.

Happy Trading

Bee

Dear Members,
As we are moving ahead with miniflow and many new members and seniors are posting in this forum daily, I suggest to improve this website with minimal time of loading of the forums. As each forums have many posts in it with images so it takes long time to load, so if we can distribute pages of each forum with n number of posts per page. I am a web developer so if seniors can talk to the administrator of this website or allow me to talk to administrator I can provide the solution for any web related problems.

And thanks a lot to Saint, ST and all members for helping new members with full heart. May GOD bless you all.

Thanks and with best regards,
Priyank Vijay

its so kind of you punu..

thanx

pannu paji i think ur roots r from punjab??

Thanks Bee…. I have done almost the same thing which you did for learning (but little slow learner …may be due to psychological aspects of trading )and that's the reason I am still not trading any other method than miniflow) and I still have the miniflow posts in doc format when Saint started teaching it with hourly bar method. Still not trading 60 min flow due to capital and my psychology but still remember I had gone through almost 800 pages ( almost 8000 posts) to learn it. Just telling this as I haven't taken or prefer any short cut for learning.

Thanks and regards
Manoj

add triggered

YEH HV,ROOTS R FROM PUNJAB(LUDHIANA)BUT I WAS BORN AND BROUGHT UP IN DELHI

gr8 je kadi chandigarh ana hoya tan daseyoo

bas karo mundiyo ..kam kar lavo pehlo …

looks TFA to me at 11.30 ph in 15 min with 30 min bullish bar (12.00 ) & 60 min as hammer ..

all will be confirmed in 2 min ….

Yes Vineet Bhai…. agree with you. Will reverse over this hourly bar high + f

reversed to long………..

reversed to longs

added to longs….

added to longs

HELLO SENIORS & FRIENDS

JUST JOINING YOU . HAVE A QUERY . IF THE MINI CROSSES THE HOD + SF CAN WE ADD FURTHER?????????

wll long over 4712+sf after 3pm-minifty

Yes VSR, certainly we can add but only if MM permits.

Part profit booking near 3rd Aug High ( resistance level )

Changga RV and VINEET phajii,it was a good mini flow day.

Trades for August 5th, 2009

Kapil

kapil n saint why not longed 3pm near by 5min PH of 4612? 5min ph on minifty
funda is to long near by 5MIn pH or 3pm bar only with SF?

hvtrader,

Is there a typo error ? Around 3:00 pm we were at 4700. We only monitor the existing trade on 5 min in last 30 min…fresh trade initiation always on 30 min …around 3:00 we were already long in miniflow…

Smart_trade

Continuing the discussions in new thread…

Link to new thread

Kapil